Originally posted by RedmikeApart from the fact that it is nonsensical to call them 'parents', and that the children must feel it a bit odd that all the other kids have a mum and a dad whereas they have a duplicates, it remains to be seen whether or not this new law works out well for the children concerned.
In this country, the law has just been changed (or is just about to be - not sure of the timescale) to formally allow lesbian and gay couples to adopt as a couple.
Previously, we had the ridiculous situation were a person in a gay or lesbian relationship could adopt as an individual, and have a child living in their household with their partner, but that ...[text shortened]... no evidence that the children are in any way harmed by having two parents of the same gender.
Originally posted by SeitseFair enough, 'negatively effect' is less extreme than 'harm'.
I think those who want to change the status quo are the ones
with the burden of demonstrating it does not negatively affect*
the children to have same sex parents, Red.
* Notice I used the term instead of harm, which is too extreme,
both for supporters and deniers of same sex parenting...
don't you think?
I don't agree that the burden of proof lies with those wanting things to change. If that was the case, society would never make progress.
Nobody 'proved' that stopping burning withches was a good idea, for example.
Some things cannot be proven - they are just accepted as intrinsically correct, as society changes. How would we go about proving such a hypothesis anyway?
There is no evidence that same sex parents have any negative effect on their children.
Originally posted by PhilodorWhy is it nonsensical to call them parents?
Apart from the fact that it is nonsensical to call them 'parents', and that the children must feel it a bit odd that all the other kids have a mum and a dad whereas they have a duplicates, it remains to be seen whether or not this new law works out well for the children concerned.
If 2 people adopt a child, are they not parents?
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Originally posted by PhilodorSome children from single parent families may also feel a bit odd when they see that their friends have got a dad and a mum. With the increase of sinle parent families, reconstituted families etc. . .there really isn't a norm anymore, the term "family" is being redefined.
Apart from the fact that it is nonsensical to call them 'parents', and that the children must feel it a bit odd that all the other kids have a mum and a dad whereas they have a duplicates,
And don't forget that nowadays children are very aware.
Originally posted by RedmikeAllow me to disagree. Societies change permanently when
Fair enough, 'negatively effect' is less extreme than 'harm'.
I don't agree that the burden of proof lies with those wanting things to change. If that was the case, society would never make progress.
Nobody 'proved' that stopping burning withches was a good idea, for example.
Some things cannot be proven - they are just accepted as intrinsically cor ...[text shortened]...
There is no evidence that same sex parents have any negative effect on their children.
society as a whole evolves both in intellect and collective
attitudes, sometimes due to a group (small or big) putting
the effort into convincing with arguments.
You know there are two kinds of societal change: Evolution and
revolution. The issue we are speaking about now won't change
in a revolutionary manner (my opinion) since the elements of
a revolution are not present. It is a matter of evolution, and it
will surely involve (if it happens) slow changes built on scientific
and political work.
As per evidence, I can only say regarding your assertion
that there is no evidence of the contrary either. Quite at
a crossroads, uh.
Originally posted by SeitseWell, we're in different parts of the world, and maybe things change in different places at different times and at different rates.
Allow me to disagree. Societies change permanently when
society as a whole evolves both in intellect and collective
attitudes, sometimes due to a group (small or big) putting
the effort into convincing with arguments.
You know there are two kinds of societal change: Evolution and
revolution. The issue we are speaking about now won't change
in a revolu ...[text shortened]... your assertion
that there is no evidence of the contrary either. Quite at
a crossroads, uh.
In this part of the world, society seems to have the collective attitude that lesbian or gay couples adopting is ok.
Only elements of the catholic church and the reactionary right are opposed here, as far as I can see.
Originally posted by RedmikeAlthough I disagree, it boils down to democracy. If a
Well, we're in different parts of the world, and maybe things change in different places at different times and at different rates.
In this part of the world, society seems to have the collective attitude that lesbian or gay couples adopting is ok.
Only elements of the catholic church and the reactionary right are opposed here, as far as I can see.
society democratically supports a change (and the system
is not flawed, i.e. corrupt countries), then that is what a
society wants as a majority. The dissidents may speak, though
they shall play by the rules of collective respect and
institutional change.
I guess I may say: Good for Scotland.
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Originally posted by RedmikeI know of many people who openly make anti-gay comments which they don't seem the think is unusual.
Haven't seen that at all.
I wouldn't call any of these people right-wing (and certainly not religious), in fact they have varying political views.
I would just call them "normal" people - men in the street as they say.
Most of my friends and all of my work colleagues have a more liberal attitude, though.
Originally posted by VargI guess the making of anti-gay comments isn't translating into an opposition to lesbian and gay adoption rights.
I know of many people who openly make anti-gay comments which they don't seem the think is unusual.
I wouldn't call any of these people right-wing (and certainly not religious), in fact they have varying political views.
I would just call them "normal" people - men in the street as they say.
Most of my friends and all of my work colleagues have a more liberal attitude, though.