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  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    22 Jan '13 18:08
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266331/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Carla-Bruni-dodge-new-French-tax-hike-moving-London-setting-1billion-fund.html

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Carla Bruni are moving to London to avoid France's 75% top tax rate.

    Is there more significance to a former President moving abroad to avoid taxes than an out of work actor doing it?
  2. 22 Jan '13 18:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Is there more significance to a former President moving abroad to avoid taxes than an out of work actor doing it?
    It's funnier. But that's probably not what you were asking...
  3. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    22 Jan '13 18:17
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    It's funnier. But that's probably not what you were asking...
    Ha! Funnier...I'll go with that!
  4. 22 Jan '13 20:31
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266331/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Carla-Bruni-dodge-new-French-tax-hike-moving-London-setting-1billion-fund.html

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Carla Bruni are moving to London to avoid France's 75% top tax rate.

    Is there more significance to a former President moving abroad to avoid taxes than an out of work actor doing it?
    Sarkozy has a Hungarian background and as far as I am concerned
    the majority of the French people will be glad to see the back of
    of the little b****************>................................
  5. 22 Jan '13 21:24
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266331/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Carla-Bruni-dodge-new-French-tax-hike-moving-London-setting-1billion-fund.html

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Carla Bruni are moving to London to avoid France's 75% top tax rate.

    Is there more significance to a former President moving abroad to avoid taxes than an out of work actor doing it?
    The significance may be that some people are willing to actually relocate to their tax haven.
  6. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    22 Jan '13 21:25
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Sarkozy has a Hungarian background and as far as I am concerned
    the majority of the French people will be glad to see the back of
    of the little b****************>................................
    What's wrong today buddy? You're not usually this worked up.
  7. 22 Jan '13 21:37
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2266331/Nicolas-Sarkozy-Carla-Bruni-dodge-new-French-tax-hike-moving-London-setting-1billion-fund.html

    Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy and Carla Bruni are moving to London to avoid France's 75% top tax rate.

    Is there more significance to a former President moving abroad to avoid taxes than an out of work actor doing it?
    If anything less, the chance of the politician doing it to score a political point is larger.
  8. 22 Jan '13 22:14
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    What's wrong today buddy? You're not usually this worked up.
    Just one of those moods where you get real annoyed and speak your mind.

    Some might say in vino veritas but I have not been drinking.


    So,........to reiterate......Screw Sarkozy and screw Lance Armstrong too.

    Hey Sasquatch, did you hear there has been another shooting in a school in Houston?
  9. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    23 Jan '13 01:15
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    It's funnier. But that's probably not what you were asking...
    What is funny is that we've heard over and over from the left that no one leaves their country to avoid high tax rates. They are proud to pay because it is considered fair to pay higher and higher tax rates the richer you are.

    We have heard about two "names" in the international press because people know who they are. How many others have left?
  10. 23 Jan '13 01:18
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    What is funny is that we've heard over and over from the left that no one leaves their country to avoid high tax rates. They are proud to pay because it is considered fair to pay higher and higher tax rates the richer you are.

    We have heard about two "names" in the international press because people know who they are. How many others have left?
    Let's face it though, the only people leaving are those who can afford to leave.


    There aren't too many left leaning socialists who have the money to leave.


    If they did they would also fall into that tax rate and then they too would leave.
  11. 23 Jan '13 02:08 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    What is funny is that we've heard over and over from the left that no one leaves their country to avoid high tax rates. They are proud to pay because it is considered fair to pay higher and higher tax rates the richer you are.

    We have heard about two "names" in the international press because people know who they are. How many others have left?
    Can you provide any example of someone on the left claiming that "no one" leaves their country to avoid high tax rates?

    People may go elsewhere if they can expect a roughly comparable social structure and standard of living. Plenty of rich Frenchmen might well follow Sarkozy to London. Not many are going to follow Depardieu to Russia.

    Might be an argument for tax harmonisation across the EU.
  12. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    23 Jan '13 02:28
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    Can you provide any example of someone on the left claiming that "no one" leaves their country to avoid high tax rates?

    People may go elsewhere if they can expect a roughly comparable social structure and standard of living. Plenty of rich Frenchmen might well follow Sarkozy to London. Not many are going to follow Depardieu to Russia.

    Might be an argument for tax harmonisation across the EU.
    Let's start with no1m and normbenign's ongoing debate about high marginal tax rates in the 1950's in the US. no1m claims they led to prosperity. normbenign says no one paid such rates (I am paraphrasing, but bear with me.)

    So today France tries high marginal tax rates, and next we hear that Johnny Halliday, Gerard Depardieu, and Sarkozy are all leaving the country to avoid them. Probably countless others are following (yes, because they have the means) but who are not getting any press because no one recognizes their names.

    So in the face of this evidence, will you agree that normbenign was most probably right and that therefore the scheme is doomed to failure because very few are going to stick around to pay such rates?
  13. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    23 Jan '13 02:34
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Let's start with no1m and normbenign's ongoing debate about high marginal tax rates in the 1950's in the US. no1m claims they led to prosperity. normbenign says no one paid such rates (I am paraphrasing, but bear with me.)

    So today France tries high marginal tax rates, and next we hear that Johnny Halliday, Gerard Depardieu, and Sarkozy are all leavi ...[text shortened]... the scheme is doomed to failure because very few are going to stick around to pay such rates?
    My wife and I moved out of New Jersey, and then Allegheny County, PA (home to Pittsburgh) for one reason: high taxes. We've fled high taxes twice. On a national level, not much Americans can do about it, but on a state and local level - you bet, it's happening.
  14. 23 Jan '13 08:40
    Originally posted by spruce112358

    So today France tries high marginal tax rates, and next we hear that Johnny Halliday, Gerard Depardieu, and Sarkozy are all leaving the country to avoid them. Probably countless others are following (yes, because they have the means) but who are not getting any press because no one recognizes their names.

    So in the face of this evidence, will you a ...[text shortened]... re the scheme is doomed to failure because very few are going to stick around to pay such rates?
    First off, all I've heard so far are anecdotes. A couple of high profile people leaving the country. I've yet to see any statistics that tell us how many in that tax bracket are actually leaving. A small minority can make a lot of noise.

    Second, you usually pay taxes in the country where you earn your income. This means that persons who are somehow bound to France for their income (working for a company in the country for example) will not gain a tax advantage by moving, so they won't. What Sarkozy, Depardieu and Halliday have in common is that they'll have no problem making a living outside of France due to their international fame.
  15. 23 Jan '13 12:26
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Let's start with no1m and normbenign's ongoing debate about high marginal tax rates in the 1950's in the US. no1m claims they led to prosperity. normbenign says no one paid such rates (I am paraphrasing, but bear with me.)

    So today France tries high marginal tax rates, and next we hear that Johnny Halliday, Gerard Depardieu, and Sarkozy are all leavi ...[text shortened]... the scheme is doomed to failure because very few are going to stick around to pay such rates?
    I think no1 may have been more right about the past and norm may have a point about the present. It was probably easier to administer very high tax rates in the 1950s, when people were less mobile and less likely to be able or willing to relocate to another country. After all, if you were an American in the 1950s, you were self-evidently living in the most prosperous, most successful country in the modern world. Where were you going to go to avoid those taxes? If you were a European, you were much more likely then than now to be monolingual, and while you could perhaps relocate from France to French-speaking Belgium or Flanders to the Netherlands or Germany to Austria, the options open to you were seriously limited.

    The question of the effectiveness of higher taxation policies in the twenty-first century is part of a larger question about the effectiveness of national governments in a globalised world.