sauce-coated cardboard

Originally posted by finnegan
Interesting. And by which magical process do you hope this little planet of ours will offer a tolerable life to its teeming millions?

Limited, small and specific government.

Originally posted by normbenign
You didn't notice the number of did not votes among Democrats, and to boot you didn't mention what the vote was about, nor did the page you posted.

You may be a good chess player, but you've got nerve referring to anyone else as "frontal lobotomized".

The USA may be doomed regardless of who is voted into office. History shows that powerful empires ...[text shortened]... sults in the worst of both worlds.

What that post had to do with the OP, I don't know.

"You didn't notice the number of did not votes among Democrats". I did notice it and chose not to mention it. I'm glad you picked up on that. There may be hope for you yet. I plan to tally the number of Democrats who did not vote. If it would have changed the outcome I will write my local representavies and ask why the rest of the party did not try to push them to a vote. I don't don't have faith in the Democrats to do the "right" thing. Yet, you can almost be sure that the republicans will certainly do the "wrong" thing when it comes to charting a course for the USA.
If you believe that the republican party is currently better for this nation over and above the democrats then you are indeed the one who must have had a.... I think you may be smart enough to fill in the blanks.

Originally posted by normbenign
Limited, small and specific government.

If it is limited, small and specific then surely you have some other process in mind for the range of activities removed from government? Or do you just not mind if they happen or not?

Originally posted by kbear1k
"You didn't notice the number of did not votes among Democrats". I did notice it and chose not to mention it. I'm glad you picked up on that. There may be hope for you yet. I plan to tally the number of Democrats who did not vote. If it would have changed the outcome I will write my local representavies and ask why the rest of the party did not try to push t ...[text shortened]... the one who must have had a.... I think you may be smart enough to fill in the blanks.

I believe more in the Republican platform rhetoric, but sadly when elected they tend to do the same things as the Democrats lately.

Originally posted by finnegan
If it is limited, small and specific then surely you have some other process in mind for the range of activities removed from government? Or do you just not mind if they happen or not?

Yes, I do. It would start with obeying the Constitution in a strict constructionist sense. All activity not specifically delegated to the federal government ought to be State and local business. Seeing this happen is not a priority. As a realist, I would like to see the trends reversed, so that perhaps my grandchildren might enjoy the kind of America I remember.

I predict I'll get a whole bunch of straw-man arguments, like wanting to roll back civil rights, or working conditions. No so save your little fingers.

Originally posted by normbenign
Yes, I do. It would start with obeying the Constitution in a strict constructionist sense. All activity not specifically delegated to the federal government ought to be State and local business. Seeing this happen is not a priority. As a realist, I would like to see the trends reversed, so that perhaps my grandchildren might enjoy the kind of America ...[text shortened]... like wanting to roll back civil rights, or working conditions. No so save your little fingers.

So let's say you send your kids to school and they toss your pretty lunch in the bin to eat with their friends at the canteen. Not that this ever happens in the real world. And let's say that peer pressure, advertising plus addictive additives make it increasingly obvious that they are eating cow pat soaked in sugary sweet grease served by low paid nimcompoops without any training.

Would you get annoyed by

a) the moral choices made by your kids
b) the moral choices by all their peers, most of whom do not have healthy luch packs from contented (but sadly deluded like you) parents
c) the moral choices made by the food industry selling this stuff to your kids over your head
d) the moral choices made by the schools because the suppliers offer good prices and / or a share of the takings.
e) the moral choices made by your elected politicians who get paid by the food industry to legislate that tomato sauce is a vegetable and pizza is a healthy option for your kids.

Your problem is not big government.

It is big business and big finance with an inadeqate government which is in their pockets.

Your small government nonsense is a licence to incapacitate your governemnt so that it is unable to protect you from being screwed by people making money at your expense.

And on your own you are not big enough to protect yourself and your family.

Tomato sauce is not a vegetable. Someone needs to tell the people you elect.

Originally posted by normbenign
Yes, I do. It would start with obeying the Constitution in a strict constructionist sense. All activity not specifically delegated to the federal government ought to be State and local business. Seeing this happen is not a priority. As a realist, I would like to see the trends reversed, so that perhaps my grandchildren might enjoy the kind of America ...[text shortened]... like wanting to roll back civil rights, or working conditions. No so save your little fingers.

The America you remember had smaller income differences...

Originally posted by finnegan
Your problem is not big government.

It is big business and big finance with an inadeqate government which is in their pockets.

Your small government nonsense is a licence to incapacitate your governemnt so that it is unable to protect you from being screwed by people making money at your expense.

And on your own you are not big enough to protect ...[text shortened]... d your family.

Tomato sauce is not a vegetable. Someone needs to tell the people you elect.

Well said.

Originally posted by finnegan
So let's say you send your kids to school and they toss your pretty lunch in the bin to eat with their friends at the canteen. Not that this ever happens in the real world. And let's say that peer pressure, advertising plus addictive additives make it increasingly obvious that they are eating cow pat soaked in sugary sweet grease served by low paid nimcompo ...[text shortened]... try to legislate that tomato sauce is a vegetable and pizza is a healthy option for your kids.

Where do the kids get the money to order at the "canteen"?

Originally posted by finnegan
Your problem is not big government.

It is big business and big finance with an inadeqate government which is in their pockets.

Your small government nonsense is a licence to incapacitate your governemnt so that it is unable to protect you from being screwed by people making money at your expense.

And on your own you are not big enough to protect ...[text shortened]... d your family.

Tomato sauce is not a vegetable. Someone needs to tell the people you elect.

I disagree totally. Big business and big finance can't harm me without my permission. I get to vote against them almost daily, with my purchases.

What power do I have against the abuses of the Constitution by government? Vote every four years? It is the government that gives finance and big business whatever power they enjoy, and which bails them out when they fail.

No, the problem is big government. It is unresponsive, and the inbred bed partner of the other bigs.

"I disagree totally. Big business and big finance can't harm me without my permission. I get to vote against them almost daily, with my purchases."

Really, what happens if you get food poison from tainted food due to a company not following FDA regulations? What happens if there is no FDA to keep unsrupulous companies in line? I suppose folks would eventually not buy such products from said company...but isn't it a little too late for those unlucky to be the first to suffer?

You statement is simply naive and illustrates how little you have thought out the end results of your beliefs.

"No, the problem is big government." This statment is very true if you add: the problem is big government in bed with big business.

Originally posted by normbenign
I disagree totally. Big business and big finance can't harm me without my permission. I get to vote against them almost daily, with my purchases.

What power do I have against the abuses of the Constitution by government? Vote every four years? It is the government that gives finance and big business whatever power they enjoy, and which bails them ...[text shortened]... e problem is big government. It is unresponsive, and the inbred bed partner of the other bigs.

Yes an ethical consumer, or one simply seeking healthy food options, can indeed duck and dive around the pressures of the big suppliers. It is not easy and the path is littered with traps - put there precisely to deceive you. To take one example only it is murderously difficult to find almost any food that is free of sugar (ask a diabetic). You can go for the healthy salads - only to find they are coated with posions and have actually got very high fat content as a result. The list is endless. Ultimately to eat well you have to go for small, independent shops selling fresh produce and ... Oh, but are there any in your town or have the large retail chains driven them out? To find healthy food requires an obsessive interest which - frankly - most people lack because they are struggling to get by already.

Then try feeding your children healthily! Again it can be done but not easily and not without daily conflict. Unless you are fortunate to live a comfortable life in a rural area perhaps, free from excessive influence from the food industry and its merchants advertising, selling, designing their poisons around your kids, tied into children's telly and other media which, actually, you may not really be even aware of unless you share their passion for children's entertainments.

Even that may be possible though. It may be perfectly possible and practical for every parent in the nation to do this and take responsibility for their children's diet.

That still does not make it even conceivable that your elected government could legislate to the effect that tomato sauce is a vegetable and pizza a healthy option in school dinners and get re-elected.

If you can tolerate that abuse of their positions, then frankly it is not surprising you are so relaxed about the power of big business to control every aspect of public and most aspects of private life in the damaging way they do.

So you think voters are without power? Well, lets not bother then. Lets copy the Arabs (oh - they seem to be revolting!) or maybe the supine Poles and Rumanians and East Germans (Oh they overthrew their governments). Or copy the Founding Fathers - (oh they fought a war of independence against the British Empire).

Freedom? Far too much bother for you I fear.

Originally posted by kbear1k
"I disagree totally. Big business and big finance can't harm me without my permission. I get to vote against them almost daily, with my purchases."

Really, what happens if you get food poison from tainted food due to a company not following FDA regulations? What happens if there is no FDA to keep unsrupulous companies in line? I suppose folks would eventu ...[text shortened]... imply naive and illustrates how little you have thought out the end results of your beliefs.

What happens when you get food poisoning with the FDA in place? There are not, nor could there be enough inspectors. What happens when a drug approved by the FDA starts killing people. All the FDA does is give us a false sense of security and confidence. It is you who are naive.

Never mind unscrupulous. Just think of possible mistakes. The FDA prevents people from using untested treatments when they are dying. And in the end, some of those promising treatments save lives. Dead is dead. My brother recently traveled to Mexico for an unapproved treatment for Mesothelioma. It didn't work, and he passed away. He isn't more dead.

People in Maine are buying milk directly from the farm, and know the name of the cow whose milk they drink. They know the farmer. They don't have to trust some inspector they don't know, who may or may not actually inspect anything.