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Debates Forum

  1. 09 Mar '13 13:39 / 9 edits
    What do you make of it?

    To my mind the scots would be like turkeys voting for christmas, going for independance. I think Mr Salmond is a fine politician, but he wants it like Gordon Brown wanted to be prime minister. I think an independance that would work for Scotland is what they have right now and they should make the most of it.

    Also, would they have to join the Euro if independant? not sure if that is clear yet, think the EU were suggesting it?

    Thats my bias, born in England point of view, what do you think?
  2. 09 Mar '13 14:12
    Originally posted by e4chris
    What do you think of Alex Salmonds hopes?


    To my mind the scots would be like turkeys voting for christmas, going for independance. I think Mr Salmond is a fine politician, but he wants it like Gordon Brown wanted to be prime minister. I think an independance that would work for Scotland is what they have right now, they should make the most of it.

    Al ...[text shortened]... k the EU were suggesting it?

    Thats my bias, born in England point of view, what do you think?
    With all the trouble that the banks and property speculators got
    us all into we are broke now and there is a lot of austerity out there.
    Quite a lot of it imposed upon us by the EU, so no, I don't think Scotland
    would be interested in changing their currency.

    As far as I know the Act of Union came about in 1707.
    This consolidated Britain. Now they became all one.
    England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

    But now it's unravelling. Ireland was the first to go in 1921
    and then there was talk of Wales leaving in the 1960's but
    nothing came of that. The Union flag has all but disappeared
    above the rooftops in Northern Ireland and this has come about
    by changes in the population of that region.

    If the Protestant Unionist group had been large and strong then
    the Union flag would be still flying there. The flag is gone and if the
    Catholic Irish Nationalist population keep growing who knows what
    results that will show. It could mean that there may be a referendum
    there to leave the UK.

    Will Northern Ireland and Scotland be any worse off if they leave the UK?

    I would not think so. There is a lot to be said for political and later economic
    independence. You could still have friendly links with friendly nations but
    with independence you can call the shots instead of taking orders from
    London or Brussels or Frankfurt.
  3. 09 Mar '13 14:20
    I think Scotland, and Northern Ireland are socalist countries, they have a large public sector subsidised by the UK, and proportionately much bigger then England, So I think without the support of the UK neither would do well, they would get into debt very quickly, but as part of the UK they strengthen it. In a funny way Alex Salmond is a good influence on the UK as you have a well run govt in Edinburgh to rival westminster, I would hate to see them go.
  4. 09 Mar '13 14:38
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I think Scotland, and Northern Ireland are socalist countries, they have a large public sector subsidised by the UK, and proportionately much bigger then England, So I think without the support of the UK neither would do well, they would get into debt very quickly, but as part of the UK they strengthen it. In a funny way Alex Salmond is a good influence on t ...[text shortened]... e UK as you have a well run govt in Edinburgh to rival westminster, I would hate to see them go.
    I would agree. The Scottish Parliament seems to be well run.
    Don't know much about the Welsh Assembly. They seem to be pretty
    anonymous as regard newsworthy reports. You hardly ever hear anything
    about Welsh affairs. Maybe I'm judging them too harshly. You always
    hear about bad news. You never hear about good news and the Welsh
    have been relatively quiet.

    But are you stuck in a rut? You think it's better to stay in the UK?
    Safety in Numbers? I wouldn't think David Cameron gives a fig about you.
    All he would be worried about now is if Scotland says yes to independence
    Where is he going to put all those nuclear submarines? Salmond will want
    them out of Faslane.
  5. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    09 Mar '13 16:13 / 1 edit
    What I love about the whole debate, especially on BBC, are the people who say Scotland can't survive as an independent nation and that they only cost the UK money (cost more than they bring to the union).
    And nobody seems to be asking these same folk: 'If Scotland only costs money, why don't you want to be rid of it then?'.

    Altruism? The same corporate slags who oppose Scottish independence are the same people who lay off whole workforces, so they can outsource to 3rd world countries to use child labour... Just to save a couple of bucks. Hardly likely they care about the bloody Gorbals.

    It makes you wonder why they want that money pit of Scottish junkies so much they're willing to pour so much resources into their negative PR campaign, doesn't it?
  6. 10 Mar '13 03:09 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    What I love about the whole debate, especially on BBC, are the people who say Scotland can't survive as an independent nation and that they only cost the UK money (cost more than they bring to the union).
    And nobody seems to be asking these same folk: 'If Scotland only costs money, why don't you want to be rid of it then?'.

    Altruism? The same corporate ...[text shortened]... uch they're willing to pour so much resources into their negative PR campaign, doesn't it?
    Your right it is a curious situation that the UK has to fight to give Scotland money, I think they should make the most of it. If Scotland stays part of the UK financial market, and has free uni, for the next five years or so it will be much more prosperous. Compared with straying into a sterling / euro grey area and have to loose there uni places, healthcare or pensions to pay the bills. I really think Alex Salmond risks stealing defeat from the jaws of victory. Its like that film 'As good as it gets' , thats what the SNP have right now.
  7. 10 Mar '13 04:42 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    I would agree. The Scottish Parliament seems to be well run.
    Don't know much about the Welsh Assembly. They seem to be pretty
    anonymous as regard newsworthy reports. You hardly ever hear anything
    about Welsh affairs. Maybe I'm judging them too harshly. You always
    hear about bad news. You never hear about good news and the Welsh
    have be e is he going to put all those nuclear submarines? Salmond will want
    them out of Faslane.
    I think David Cameron doesn't want Scottish independance at all. It would be bad for Great Britain, tories do care about that sort of thing, they just don't know how to take on Alex Salmond. The Royal family having been visiting more often too, he would be in the tower of london if they had their way

    Its very hard taking on the SNP over this issue , any counter they dub scare mongering, But they are acting like pied pipers, Independance strikes me as needlessly risky, its nationalism over common sense. And they pretty much have it already.
  8. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    10 Mar '13 09:05
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I think David Cameron doesn't want Scottish independance at all. It would be bad for Great Britain, tories do care about that sort of thing, they just don't know how to take on Alex Salmond. The Royal family having been visiting more often too, he would be in the tower of london if they had their way

    Its very hard taking on the SNP over this issue , a ...[text shortened]... as needlessly risky, its nationalism over common sense. And they pretty much have it already.
    What do you think of Scottish fiscal policy then?
    I mean, the large majority of Scots do not vote Tory and they are, more often than not, ruled over (especially on financial matters) by a Tory majority in London.

    Not very representative of the will of the people, is it?
  9. 10 Mar '13 23:00 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    What do you think of Scottish fiscal policy then?
    I mean, the large majority of Scots do not vote Tory and they are, more often than not, ruled over (especially on financial matters) by a Tory majority in London.

    Not very representative of the will of the people, is it?
    Thats true, I think Margaret Thatcher is one reason why the SNP do so well, she was so different from scottish ideas and people suffered from her policies from what i can gather, a lot of unemployment. But the Scots run themselves now.

    What strikes me is the SNP have won Scotland a very good deal, self governing, all the policies they want. I think they are wrong to chuck that away.

    I think an independant Scotland could do well, but they would do much better, much more prosperous with the current set up. With independance it may take the SNP 5-10 years just to get to where we are now, where as if they kept the current set up they could put that time to better use.

    I think Alex Salmond wants Independance in terms of laws policy etc, but to stay part of the UK financial market. Well that is the desk infornt of him right now. Full independance and he might have to join the euro, which would be no good.
  10. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    11 Mar '13 16:18
    Originally posted by e4chris
    What do you make of it?

    To my mind the scots would be like turkeys voting for christmas, going for independance. I think Mr Salmond is a fine politician, but he wants it like Gordon Brown wanted to be prime minister. I think an independance that would work for Scotland is what they have right now and they should make the most of it.

    Also, would they ha ...[text shortened]... k the EU were suggesting it?

    Thats my bias, born in England point of view, what do you think?
    Like most American's, I think this is a matter for the people of Scotland to decide. The Scot's seem like a well educated group. I'm sure they will make the right choice.
  11. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    11 Mar '13 17:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Like most American's, I think this is a matter for the people of Scotland to decide. The Scot's seem like a well educated group. I'm sure they will make the right choice.
    I presume if they make the wrong choice, you'll think up some mad nuke argument, invade the highlands and sell the North Sea Gas to dubious contractors and corporations who support US imperialism...

    Na, sorry, I's jist a wee bit cynical.
    America would never do anyhing like that. You'd never attack former allies.

    Na, sorry, that was just rampant off-topic sarcasm...
  12. 12 Mar '13 10:04
    Originally posted by bill718
    Like most American's, I think this is a matter for the people of Scotland to decide. The Scot's seem like a well educated group. I'm sure they will make the right choice.
    I'm not so sure. The SNP will put a lot of pressure on for a yes vote.
  13. 12 Mar '13 11:54
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I'm not so sure. The SNP will put a lot of pressure on for a yes vote.
    If it's yes or no I don't think it will matter to the currency.

    Scotland will not and in my opinion should not take the Euro.

    The Euro is a failure, the Germans know that now
    but they will never admit it. It's a crazy set up they
    have at the moment. 27 countries in EU but only 17
    of them with the Euro.

    They got it badly wrong. They should have had a politically
    integrated Europe first and then talk about us all having the
    same unit of currency. They put the cart before the horse
    and now we are all paying heavily for that mistake.

    When Ireland got into bother previously the Government
    used to devalue the currency and that made our exports
    cheaper to buy, thus the sales figures went up along with
    GDP and the economy recovered.

    We can't do that now because Brussels, Frankfurt and Berlin
    all have to sing from the same hymn sheet first before any
    economic decisions are made.

    In effect we have lost a great deal of control over our own affairs.
  14. 12 Mar '13 12:47 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    If it's yes or no I don't think it will matter to the currency.

    Scotland will not and in my opinion should not take the Euro.

    The Euro is a failure, the Germans know that now
    but they will never admit it. It's a crazy set up they
    have at the moment. 27 countries in EU but only 17
    of them with the Euro.

    They got it badly wrong. They decisions are made.

    In effect we have lost a great deal of control over our own affairs.
    I don't know if there is a german word 'megaschizer' but there should be, I think in 10 years the euro could be great, like a second USA but it looks a bit rocky at the moment...

    The EU did say i think that Scotland would have to join the Euro if they seperate from the UK and want to become members. I'm not sure if they could enforce it. But it seems to me independance is a financial grey area Scotland could do without. The deal they have now is very good to my mind.
  15. 12 Mar '13 13:20
    Originally posted by e4chris
    I don't know if there is a german word 'megaschizer' but there should be, I think in 10 years the euro could be great, like a second USA but it looks a bit rocky at the moment...

    The EU did say i think that Scotland would have to join the Euro if they seperate from the UK and want to become members. I'm not sure if they could enforce it. But it seems to m ...[text shortened]... nancial grey area Scotland could do without. The deal they have now is very good to my mind.
    For economic union to be effective you need political union,can you honestly see that with Europe any time soon?