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Originally posted by no1marauderMaybe, just maybe, you could ask what I was referring to instead of accusing me of lying, marauder. You simply go on yet another insulting and accusing spree, instead of adressing seriously what I stated. You once again managed to derail a debate and turn it into yet another emotional conflict. You cannot control your feelings. Your reasoning is emotional and irrational. You simply cannot control yourself.
The lies never stop. Arafat DID sign a peace agreement; the Oslo accords which gave Israel something it didn't deserve - control of 76% of the territory of Palestine. But to fanatics like you that just isn't enough; you went Israel to de facto control the Muslim portion of Palestine as well. Israel's "trump cards" are held in violation of internatio ...[text shortened]... but it is inevitable.
EDIT: And what leader got killed for signing the Oslo Accords, Ivanhoe?
As I showed you before, your proposals are internally incoherent and illogical. You simply choose to ignore the problem of the terrorist organisations of which you simply assume, "guess", that they will vanish because there will be a Palestinian State. You are completely ignoring the religiously based ideology of these political criminals and the influence anti-semitic fascist regimes have on these organisations. You are also ignoring the obligation the Palestinians and the regional countries have to recognise Israel and you are ignoring Israel's right to secure borders. Together with the Right for Palestians to have an independent state these are key points adressed in Security Council Resolution 224.
You are again wriggling like a cought eel. Every time you are in trouble in a debate you take refuge in these annoying and manipulating tactics to divert the attention from the fact that I showed that your reasoning is irrational, illogical and unrealistic.
marauder: "And what leader got killed for signing the Oslo Accords, Ivanhoe?"
Oslo was never brought into practise, Marauder.
You perfectly well know which peace negotiations I am referring to .... the 2000 Camp David negotiations.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_campdavid_2000.php
http://www.mideastweb.org/campdavid2.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/cd2000art.html
When Arafat stated he would be killed for signing the peace agreement he was, of course, referring to the 2000 Camp David negotiations between him and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak under "supervision" of President Clinton.
You accuse me of being disingenuous. You disgust me.
You accuse me of not wanting a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians and you accuse me of being paranoid. You disgust me.
You accuse me of being a fanatic, while your whole style, jargon, your insulting and accusing sprees and manipulating ways of "reasoning" reveal who the real fanatic is. You disgust me.
You accuse me of being a liar. You disgust me, marauder.
Originally posted by no1marauderThe Oslo agreements were never implemented. Israel simply went on with building new settlements on occupied territory and at the same time the Palestinians simply continued their resistance. Nothing changed.
Why do you keep lying, Ivanhoe? The Palestinians already agreed at Oslo to recognize Israel. And the 1967 borders were secure enough for Israel to militarily defeat all its Arab neighbors in 6 days.
Originally posted by ivanhoe???????? Are you really that ignorant of history?? Where did the Palestinian Authority come from, Ivanhoe??
The Oslo agreements were never implemented. Israel simply went on with building new settlements on occupied territory and at the same time the Palestinians simply continued their resistance. Nothing changed.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeMore lies. I've addressed every single one of your claims. Read the post you just made and tell me who's being "emotional", Ivanhoe.
Maybe, just maybe, you could ask what I was referring to instead of accusing me of lying, marauder. You simply go on yet another insulting and accusing spree, instead of adressing seriously what I stated. You once again managed to derail a debate and turn it into yet another emotional conflict. You cannot control your feelings. Your reasoning is emotional a ...[text shortened]... l fanatic is. You disgust me.
You accuse me of being a liar. You disgust me, marauder.
You have showed nothing except that you really don't want the Palestinians to ever have a free, independent state. You continue to insist that the Palestinian people be denied their freedom until somehow, some way every single organization and country in the world accepts Israel's "right to exist", even though Israel will exist regardless of what these groups say. Why the Palestinians should continue to be the victims of violence and oppression as a result of an illegal occupation based on what others say and believe you have never explained. Is it because they are Muslims and their oppressors are God's chosen people according to your fairy tales?
You are a fanatic, a liar and a supporter of mass oppression of a people based on their religion. No wonder why you like RBHILL soooooooooo much.
Originally posted by no1marauderThe Oslo agreements never brought peace, marauder. Thát was the point. In that sense they were never implemented. The point was also that Arafat stated that if he would have signed the 2000 Camp David proposals, he would have been murdered. He would have been murdered for betraying the Arab cause.
???????? Are you really that ignorant of history?? Where did the Palestinian Authority come from, Ivanhoe??
He was not killed after the Oslo agreements because he continued to wage war. You're trying hard to not understand the matter marauder and diverting the attention to side issues. Go ahead. Who cares ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou certainly don't care if Israel continues their illegal occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people. Neither side came anywhere near accepting the Camp David proposals which were seriously flawed. They could have been the basis for further negotiations; however, once Sharon got in he refused to negotiate with the Palestinian's elected president while going on a settlement building spree. The failure to progress to a peace agreement is based on the type of unreasonable demands you place on the Palestinian side; that they oppress their own people to Israel's satisfaction before Israel is required to do anything. That is not the basis on which a peace can be built between equals.
The Oslo agreements never brought peace, marauder. Thát was the point. In that sense they were never implemented. The point was also that Arafat stated that if he would have signed the 2000 Camp David proposals, he would have been murdered. He would have been murdered for betraying the Arab cause.
He was not killed after the Oslo agreements because he cont ...[text shortened]... understand the matter marauder and diverting the attention to side issues. Go ahead. Who cares ?
Originally posted by no1marauderYou are again taking your hobbies of accusing people and spouting absolute utter nonsense to a new and truly mindboggling level. No accusation is wild enough for you. The usual annoying stage in your debates is again turning to the usual ridiculous stage. Where is your accusation that I am a mass murderer ? 🙄 C'mon, don't be so moderate ..... 😀
More lies. I've addressed every single one of your claims. Read the post you just made and tell me who's being "emotional", Ivanhoe.
You have showed nothing except that you really don't want the Palestinians to ever have a free, independent state. You continue to insist that the Palestinian people be denied their freedom until somehow, some ...[text shortened]... oppression of a people based on their religion. No wonder why you like RBHILL soooooooooo much.
Originally posted by ivanhoeAt some point, Israel will reject fanatics like Sharon and a peace will be made based on a free and independent Palestinian state. You'll hate it, but that'll be TFB. No reasonable person expects the Palestinians to wait for their freedom until every single anti-Zionist organization or country is crushed to your satisfaction, Ivanhoe.
You are again taking your hobbies of accusing people and spouting absolute utter nonsense to a new and truly mindboggling level. No accusation is wild enough for you. The usual annoying stage in your debates is again turning to the usual ridiculous stage. Where is your accusation that I am a mass murderer ? 🙄 C'mon, don't be so moderate ..... 😀
Originally posted by no1maraudermarauder: "You certainly don't care if Israel continues their illegal occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people."
You certainly don't care if Israel continues their illegal occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people. Neither side came anywhere near accepting the Camp David proposals which were seriously flawed. They could have been the basis for further negotiations; however, once Sharon got in he refused to negotiate with the Palestinian's elected presid ...[text shortened]... is required to do anything. That is not the basis on which a peace can be built between equals.
Sure marauder ..... *pads him on the head*.
marauder: " That is not the basis on which a peace can be built between equals."
If I would like to have absolute certainty that negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians would never lead to peace, I would without any hesitation choose you as a mediator.
The best way to start a war is starting to accuse people. The best way to continue a war is adding insults, insinuations, lies and more accusations. I bet you don't even know how to end a war. In fact I am certain you don't. You are incapable of ending your own wars let alone other people's wars.
Be honest, have you ever managed to end one of your own wars, marauder ?
Originally posted by no1marauderSure marauder ..... *looks at the marauder with a worried look on his face*
At some point, Israel will reject fanatics like Sharon and a peace will be made based on a free and independent Palestinian state. You'll hate it, but that'll be TFB. No reasonable person expects the Palestinians to wait for their freedom until every single anti-Zionist organization or country is crushed to your satisfaction, Ivanhoe.
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat a surprise; Ivanhoe has taken the discussion to how I post in the forums AGAIN. Stay on-topic and explain why the Palestinian people should have to wait for their freedom until such time as every single anti-Zionist organization or government in the Middle East is destroyed to your's and Ariel Sharon's satisfaction.
marauder: "You certainly don't care if Israel continues their illegal occupation and oppression of the Palestinian people."
Sure marauder ..... *pads him on the head*.
marauder: " That is not the basis on which a peace can be built between equals."
If I would like to have absolute certainty that negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians ...[text shortened]... ther people's wars.
Be honest, have you ever managed to end one of your own wars, marauder ?
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Originally posted by no1maraudermarauder: "What a surprise; Ivanhoe has taken the discussion to how I post in the forums AGAIN."
What a surprise; Ivanhoe has taken the discussion to how I post in the forums AGAIN. Stay on-topic and explain why the Palestinian people should have to wait for their freedom until such time as every single anti-Zionist organization or government in the Middle East is destroyed to your's and Ariel Sharon's satisfaction.
Of course, because you went on your usual insulting and accusing sprees AGAIN.
Adress the lack of logical thought and inner coherence in your "peace" proposal, instead of diverting the attention with yet again ridiculous statements about my intentions.
Originally posted by ivanhoe??????????????
marauder: "What a surprise; Ivanhoe has taken the discussion to how I post in the forums AGAIN."
Of course, because you went on your usual insulting and accusing sprees AGAIN.
Adress the lack of logical thought and inner coherence in your "peace" proposal, instead of diverting the attention with yet again ridiculous statements about my intentions.
Logical thought:
Israel is illegal occupying Palestinian territory and oppressing the Palestinian people.
Logical thought:
They shouldn't do this.
Logical thought:
The Palestinians should have their own free and independent state.
Logical thought:
The Israelis should get out of their territory, so they can form a free and independent state.
Logical thought:
A free and independent country gets to allow whatever political organizations they desire without interference from foreigners.
Logical thought:
Therefore, Israel has no business demanding that the Palestine nation "disband" anything or anybody.
Please show where the above isn't logical and coherent.
Originally posted by no1marauderAdress my criticism.
??????????????
Logical thought:
Israel is illegal occupying Palestinian territory and oppressing the Palestinian people.
Logical thought:
They shouldn't do this.
Logical thought:
The Palestinians should have their own free and independent state.
Logical thought:
The Israeli ...[text shortened]... isband" anything or anybody.
Please show where the above isn't logical and coherent.