Originally posted by no1marauderI explained it in this thread. That is what I have been doing all along. I criticised your stance. You apparently missed it. Reread my criticism.
Stop playing your childish games; you said my position wasn't "logical" and "coherent". Well, there's my position; show what isn't "logical" and/or "coherent" about it.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeYou're pathetic. Grow up. I've addressed every one of your "points" and all taken together they equal that you oppose freedom for the Palestinian people. You support continued Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and oppression of the Palestinian people. You oppose the Palestinian people being able to decide what political organizations are allowed in their own country.
I explained it in this thread. That is what I have been doing all along. I criticised your stance. You apparently missed it. Reread my criticism.
That's your "criticism" of my view; I support the end of the illegal Israeli occupation and oppression of the Palestinians and you support it. Of course, if the Palestinians will destroy the organizations that have resisted Israeli oppression then maybe you'll talk about Palestinian "freedom" IF a bunch of other countries also bend their knee before Israel. What a joke. That's your position and your "criticism" and it stinks. Israel is the oppressor, not the victim; it is the predominant military power in the Middle East and still would be the day after the Palestinians get the country that is their birthright. Your propaganda and lies can't change the facts, Ivanhoe; it is Israel and its policies that is preventing peace in the Middle East and they are not entitled to benefit from their brutality and oppression.
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Originally posted by no1maraudermarauder: "..... you oppose freedom for the Palestinian people. You support continued Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and oppression of the Palestinian people. You oppose the Palestinian people being able to decide what political organizations are allowed in their own country."
You're pathetic. Grow up. I've addressed every one of your "points" and all taken together they equal that you oppose freedom for the Palestinian people. You support continued Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and oppression of the Palestinian people. You oppose the Palestinian people being able to decide what political organizations are allowed ...[text shortened]... ace in the Middle East and they are not entitled to benefit from their brutality and oppression.
Warped and intentionally twisted misrepresentations of my positions.
marauder: " .... it is Israel and its policies that is preventing peace in the Middle East and they are not entitled to benefit from their brutality and oppression."
You just revealed your "fundament" for your reasoning. You do not want Israel to "benefit" by gaining a true peace. No, you want to punish them for their brutality and oppression. Marauder, you don't know what a peace agreement is all about. It is certainly not about punishing one side of the conflict. Your "peace" proposal is in fact a continuation of the war under different circumstances, hence the lacking of internal coherence and logic aimed at true peace. Your "logic" is aimed at a continuation of the war in some form. Thát is what your "peace" proposal is all about. The fact that you accuse me of not wanting peace is one of your usual manipulating techniques, an integral part of what you call your "war" against whatever you decide to disagree with.
You are indeed a "warrior", a marauder, a streetfighter, armed with the usual weaponry.
Originally posted by ivanhoeMore lies. Why don't you address my criticism of your position, Ivanhoe? Because you can't, so you fall back to your neverending "I don't like how you debate" nonsense. Explain why Israel, the illegal occupiers of Palestinian land and oppressors of the Palestinain people, should have the power to dictate to a free independent Palestinian state what political organizations can exist there. Explain why the Palestinian people should have to wait for their freedom until others like Iran recognize Israel. Explain why Israel can continue to violate international law with impunity (over 50 UN Security Council resolutions). Address the issues for a change and not with your usual vague platitudes about "secure borders" and such rot for a country that is militarily superior to all its neighbors put together.
[b]marauder: "..... you oppose freedom for the Palestinian people. You support continued Israeli occupation of Palestinian land and oppression of the Palestinian people. You oppose the Palestinian people being able to decide what political organizations are allowed in their own country."
Warped intentionally twisted misrepresentations of my position ...[text shortened]...
You are indeed a "warrior", a marauder, a streetfighter, armed with the usual weaponry.[/b]
I support a peace with a Palestinian state and an Israeli state both bound by the rules of international law. You don't.
Originally posted by no1marauderIt is more than enough now, marauder.
More lies. Why don't you address my criticism of your position, Ivanhoe? Because you can't, so you fall back to your neverending "I don't like how you debate" nonsense. Explain why Israel, the illegal occupiers of Palestinian land and oppressors of the Palestinain people, should have the power to dictate to a free independent Palestinian state what ...[text shortened]... Palestinian state and an Israeli state both bound by the rules of international law. You don't.
Originally posted by ivanhoeJust answer this one question that I asked several pages ago regarding your demand that other countries recognize Israel, inter alia, before a Palestinian state is created:
As I said it is more than enough now, marauder.
Why the Palestinians should continue to be the victims of violence and oppression as a result of an illegal occupation based on what others say and believe you have never explained. Is it because they are Muslims and their oppressors are God's chosen people according to your fairy tales?
Is that the reason, Ivanhoe?
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Originally posted by no1maraudermarauder: "Just answer this one question that I asked several pages ago regarding your demand that other countries recognize Israel, inter alia, before a Palestinian state is created:"
Just answer this one question that I asked several pages ago regarding your demand that other countries recognize Israel, inter alia, before a Palestinian state is created:
Why the Palestinians should continue to be the victims of violence and oppression as a result of an illegal occupation based on what others say and believe you have never ...[text shortened]... are God's chosen people according to your fairy tales?
Is that the reason, Ivanhoe?
This was part of the virtual All Embracing Peace Treaty (AEPT) in the Middle East. In a Israel-Palestine Peace Agreement (IPPA) the participating parties would be asked to recognise Israel.
marauder: "Why the Palestinians should continue to be the victims of violence and oppression ... "
A sincere peace agreement is meant to end the suffering of the Palestinian people ànd the suffering of the Israeli people.
marauder:" ... Is it because they are Muslims and their oppressors are God's chosen people according to your fairy tales?"
Your insults and innuendo will get you nowhere.
Do you keep insisting this "discussion" to continue, marauder ?
Enough is enough.
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe Palestinians (PLO) already agreed at Oslo to recognize Israel.
[b]marauder: "Just answer this one question that I asked several pages ago regarding your demand that other countries recognize Israel, inter alia, before a Palestinian state is created:"
This was part of the virtual All Embracing Peace Treaty (AEPT) in the Middle East. In a Israel-Palestine Peace Agreement (IPPA) the participating parties would be ...[text shortened]... ndo will get you nowhere.
Do you keep insisting this "discussion" to continue, marauder ?[/b]
What more is required of their independent state? They've already agreed to give Israel 76% of the land of Palestine and to recognize that nation. That is why Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others opposed Oslo but the PLO has been willing to negotiate along those lines for over 10 years. Sharon refused to negotiate with Arafat and has made statements that Israel will not return to the 1967 borders; he wants more than 76% of Palestine. How much more do the Palestinians have to give?