@wolfgang59 saidAnd how many will be saved because of them?
The more important question is
How many people that own guns will actually kill someone?
Hmm?
Hard question so answer. You might even say impossible questions to answer.
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@whodey saidPeople tend to ignore the suicide rates in America, which are double that of the majority if european countries. Could the access to guns be the difference?
And how many will be saved because of them?
Hard question so answer. You might even say impossible questions to answer.
@whodey saidA negligible amount.
And how many will be saved because of them?
How many citizens with guns have saved themselves or others with a gun?
When it happens (or claimed to have happened) its HUGE news.
Whereas any mass shootings of under 4 or 5
are just dismissed as the price of liberty.
@wolfgang59 saidNegligible? Where are those statistics I wonder?
A negligible amount.
How many citizens with guns have saved themselves or others with a gun?
When it happens (or claimed to have happened) its HUGE news.
Whereas any mass shootings of under 4 or 5
are just dismissed as the price of liberty.
As for the price of freedom, only a moral society is capable of freedom. The more wicked a society becomes, the less free you can let them be. And if they become too wicked, then all that can be done is build a wall around them and hire a warden.
This is why the Left has declared war on morality and God
@whodey saidYour logic meanders like water on a sand table.
Negligible? Where are those statistics I wonder?
As for the price of freedom, only a moral society is capable of freedom. The more wicked a society becomes, the less free you can let them be. And if they become too wicked, then all that can be done is build a wall around them and hire a warden.
This is why the Left has declared war on morality and God
Guns ... the Left ... god ... wtf?
@wolfgang59 said"The more important question is
A negligible amount.
How many citizens with guns have saved themselves or others with a gun?
When it happens (or claimed to have happened) its HUGE news.
Whereas any mass shootings of under 4 or 5
are just dismissed as the price of liberty.
How many people that own guns will actually kill someone?
Hmm?"
"Your logic meanders like water on a sand table."
Sooooo deep, wolfgang, like you could be like the rhp guru like seer with your ponderings and musings.
In answer to your question how many have been saved, it depends on who you ask, it's one of those things that in the event a firearm is used in self defense neither party is inclined to report it. The person defending themselves with a gun is dis-inclined to report aiming a weapon at someone because in the US the fear is you're likely to be treated as a criminal until cleared, if cleared, anywhere else, for example NZ, Aus, the UK your means of self defense will be confiscated plus the possibility of criminal charges.
On the other side the mugger, murderer, home invader, rapist is not going to report he was chased off either, for obvious reasons. So any stats are skewed in favor of the gun control freaks. In the US the number has been estimated as high as 200 000 time in a year.
Let's half that, let's say 100 000. News for wolfgang, you have no right to throw 100 000 people under the bus.
Another number which will never be calculated is: What of the crimes that are not committed because the potential victim might be carrying, or might have access to a gun?
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@wajoma saidIf guns were a deterrent then surely America's crime levels would be lower than gun-free countries.
"The more important question is
How many people that own guns will actually kill someone?
Hmm?"
"Your logic meanders like water on a sand table."
Sooooo deep, wolfgang, like you could be like the rhp guru like seer with your ponderings and musings.
In answer to your question how many have been saved, it depends on who you ask, it's one of those things that ...[text shortened]... hat are not committed because the potential victim might be carrying, or might have access to a gun?
@wajoma saidCurrently there are about 30,000 gun deaths per annum in US (excluding suicides).
In the US the number has been estimated as high as 200 000 time in a year.
Let's half that, let's say 100 000.
Some idiot source reckons without guns that figure would climb to 230,000 !
Even you think that ridiculous and choose to arbitrarily halve the increase.
In the UK there are about 50 gun related deaths per year.
If everyone in UK were armed it would drop to about 15, right?
wajoma logic 😵
11 Nov 18
@whodey saidHere ... I'll give you one free of charge
And how many will be saved because of them?
Hard question so answer. You might even say impossible questions to answer.
(playback from this site not allowed)
Trained veteran. Owner of liquor store.
Two reasons to allow him a gun.
11 Nov 18
@wajoma saidSome data from Scientific American:
"The more important question is
How many people that own guns will actually kill someone?
Hmm?"
"Your logic meanders like water on a sand table."
Sooooo deep, wolfgang, like you could be like the rhp guru like seer with your ponderings and musings.
In answer to your question how many have been saved, it depends on who you ask, it's one of those things that ...[text shortened]... hat are not committed because the potential victim might be carrying, or might have access to a gun?
In a 2015 study using data from the FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, researchers at Boston Children's Hospital and Harvard University reported that firearm assaults were 6.8 times more common in the states with the most guns versus those with the least. Also in 2015 a combined analysis of 15 different studies found that people who had access to firearms at home were nearly twice as likely to be murdered as people who did not.
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In one, published in 1993 in the New England Journal of Medicine and funded by the CDC, he and his colleagues identified 444 people who had been killed between 1987 and 1992 at home in three U.S. regions—Shelby County, Tennessee, King County, Washington State, and Cuyahoga County, Ohio—and then collected details about them and their deaths from local police, medical examiners and people who had been close to the victims. They found that a gun in the home was associated with a nearly threefold increase in the odds that someone would be killed at home by a family member or intimate acquaintance.
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The initial work by Kellermann and his colleagues was criticized for not using enough statistical controls. So they went on to publish other studies confirming the link between guns and more violence. In one, they found that a gun in the home was tied to a nearly fivefold increase in the odds of suicide. (More Americans die from gun suicides every year than gun homicides.) In another, published in 1998, they reported that guns at home were four times more likely to cause an accidental shooting, seven times more likely to be used in assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used in a suicide than they were to be used for self-defense.
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More than 30 peer-reviewed studies, focusing on individuals as well as populations, have been published that confirm what Kellermann's studies suggested: that guns are associated with an increased risk for violence and homicide. “There is really uniform data to support the statement that access to firearms is associated with an increased risk of firearm-related death and injury,” Wintemute concludes.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/
The evidence is pretty conclusive that having a gun in your home makes you less safe.
11 Nov 18
@no1marauder saidThat's all very well but wajoma says
“There is really uniform data to support the statement that access to firearms is associated with an increased risk of firearm-related death and injury,” Wintemute concludes.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/
The evidence is pretty conclusive that having a gun in your home makes you less safe.
In the US the number (of lives saved by guns) has
been estimated as high as 200 000 time in a year.
So wajoma on one side, Scientific American and years of studied data on the other.
It's impossible to decide.