Should engagement rings be returned?

@zahlanzi said
should engagement rings be bought?

but seriously, yes. If one bought a ring for this ritual (dumb ritual imo) with his/her own money, they should get to keep that ring if the purpose for which it was bought no longer applies (divorce/breaking off the engagement).

Should as in "you should do this if you're a decent person". I don't care to talk about laws. Whatever they are, you adhere to them because you have no choice, no point discussing over them.

Z seems to be putting down celebrating a future life together by making their marriage official in the eyes of their family, friends and in the eyes of society. And, symbolically in the eyes of each other.
Z is not a very happy person. I don't see much depth in that kind of thinking. I could b wrong of course.

@vivify said
I was looking for both legal and moralistic arguments.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, and just because something isn't necessarily immoral that doesn't mean it should be legal, like keeping a wedding ring even though the relationship is over.

The legal argument you made seems like a legit one.

Ideally, our laws should reflect morality.

@wildgrass said
Ideally, our laws should reflect morality.

That may be a good thread. In doing so, do you think that we could stipulate that liberals are generally idealistic, with conservatives being more realistic?
And you are saying, it seems, that morality has to be found or structured in idealism?

@vivify said
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2018/02/07/engagement-ring-proposal-wedding-etiquette/1075393001/

This article mentions different states have varying laws on the return of engagement rings.

Some states consider engagement rings an unconditional gift regardless of whether the marriage occurs while some states have laws requiring the ring to be retur ...[text shortened]...

Should engagement rings be returned if the wedding is called off? What about if divorce occurs?

I don't see why they should be returned. An engagement ring means you're engaged and that is complete once the ring is accepted.

@no1marauder said
I don't see why they should be returned. An engagement ring means you're engaged and that is complete once the ring is accepted.

Actually, that is perfect legal reasoning. The ring is not about getting married, it is about getting engaged, ,,,,that particular vignette has been completed. Cool.