Hi there,
would be interested to hear your points of view on the following matter:
In Deutschlandfunk (German radio station only for news, infos and debattes there was an interview with a french journalist who called the Germans to take on national pride again.
But in Germany the situation is different. Whoever would publicly state that he/she is proud to be German would automatically be looked at from the media as he has a mustache and a side parting as in 1933 - 1945.
On top of that, based on our history, we have this organization of the "Jews in Germany" who always give us a hard time whenever national pride comes up or e.g. anything comes up which is focused on foreigners in Germany etc.
But when we were proud hosts to the world nations in the World Soccer Championship one could for the first time (i´m 27) feel something like national pride with our flag at car windows etc.
So we have our history for which we are not proud. My Granddad where send to the countryside (as beeing too young) as the war started so im 3 generations away from that. Our people today go to strikes on the streets against Germany´s participation in wars (e.g. Iraq).
And I simply feel proud to descend from those who build out of ruins this
nice, lawfull, wealthy and relatively open minded country which Germany is today.
Should we take on national pride or are we still obliged to hide it and suppress these feelings ?
Please comment.
no country's history is perfect and without criticism...
i think a german should be proud to be german, just not a nazi proud to be a nazi....
it's interesting to note that if germany had won ww2 no sense of remorse, regret or guilt would have set in, this implies that it wasnt the their acts during the war that caused these emotions, but the fact they lost
The post that was quoted here has been removedBah! It's the opposite.
Multilateral projects like the EU (or in his example, UEFA) allow the resurgence of a healthy form of national pride.
Expressing the love of one's country within a non-cooperative setting is usually done by opposing domestic virtues to foreign vices. In a cooperative setting, the love of one's country is expressed by complementarity. Differences cease to be objects of opposition, to become objects of endearment.
And that, my friend, makes all the difference in the world.
Originally posted by RochadeEvery country has parts of its history which it would like not to be mentioned. I'm fairly old (nearly 53) but World War 2 had been over for 10 years before even I was born. It mustn't be forgotten, but it's ancient history now. Be as proud as you like of what you've done since and much of what you did before (great art, music, literature and stuff like that).
So we have our history for which we are not proud. My Granddad where send to the countryside (as beeing too young) as the war started so im 3 generations away from that. Our people today go to strikes on the streets against Germany´s participation in wars (e.g. Iraq). ... Should we take on national pride or are we still obliged to hide it and suppress these feelings ?
Please comment.
Originally posted by RochadeI understand what you are talking about, as I grew up in Germany in the 70s and 80s in a climate of guilt. One day I realised that in a way, Germany was just as nationalistic as many other countries, but instead of saying "we are the best", they said "we are the worst" (almost with some sort of pride - we are eeevil and dangerous!). I don't think either view is healthy. My hope is that Germans can learn to drop the guilt without going all the other way.
Hi there,
would be interested to hear your points of view on the following matter:
In Deutschlandfunk (German radio station only for news, infos and debattes there was an interview with a french journalist who called the Germans to take on national pride again.
But in Germany the situation is different. Whoever would publicly state that he/she is p ...[text shortened]... nal pride or are we still obliged to hide it and suppress these feelings ?
Please comment.
Bertolt Brecht's "Kinderhymne" perfectly expresses my thoughts about the issue:
Anmut sparet nicht noch Mühe
Leidenschaft nicht noch Verstand
Daß ein gutes Deutschland blühe
Wie ein andres gutes Land.
Daß die Völker nicht erbleichen
Wie vor einer Räuberin
Sondern ihre Hände reichen
Uns wie andern Völkern hin.
Und nicht über und nicht unter
Andern Völkern wolln wir sein
Von der See bis zu den Alpen
Von der Oder bis zum Rhein.
Und weil wir dies Land verbessern
Lieben und beschirmen wir's.
Und das liebste mag's uns scheinen
So wie andern Völkern ihrs.
Originally posted by RochadeI think pride in one's nation is a very healthy thing. If you are proud of something, you repect it and work to preserve it and make it better. On the other hand, a national sense of shame might drive change in the short term, but enduring generations of it would eventually leave the descendents resentful over something they didn't have anything to do with.
Hi there,
would be interested to hear your points of view on the following matter:
In Deutschlandfunk (German radio station only for news, infos and debattes there was an interview with a french journalist who called the Germans to take on national pride again.
But in Germany the situation is different. Whoever would publicly state that he/she is p ...[text shortened]... nal pride or are we still obliged to hide it and suppress these feelings ?
Please comment.
The sins of the fathers are not visited on the sons. If Germany is your country, you don't have to be proud of her mistakes, but you can certainly be proud of her achievements.
That's no different than how many Americans feel about the US.
Originally posted by RochadeBe proud but aware of the bad things too. Make sure you know which parts you're proud of and which you are not.
Hi there,
would be interested to hear your points of view on the following matter:
In Deutschlandfunk (German radio station only for news, infos and debattes there was an interview with a french journalist who called the Germans to take on national pride again.
But in Germany the situation is different. Whoever would publicly state that he/she is p ...[text shortened]... nal pride or are we still obliged to hide it and suppress these feelings ?
Please comment.
I feel national pride is a funny word: I see why a parent feels proud when their children achieve something, but what does being born in a country have anything to do with the decisions being made by strangers on that country's behalf?
I am happy Canada is a tolerant place for the most part, especially compared to other countries, but am I proud of it? It's a reality that has NOTHING to do with me. It's a good thing and I'm happy to enjoy the benefits of it but there are still many things wrong with this country that can and should be fixed now.
As for Germany, I don't like the idea of this generations German citizens feeling like they are overburdened by the legacy of the Holocaust. It was only put upon Germans by Germans.
I don't like the fact that my country took indigenous land and put the inhabitants on terrible reserves, or that Canada used Chinese immigrants to build the railways or interned Asians during the Second World War.
But I don't feel any more responsible for these things than a German today should feel for the Holocaust. Let's keep perspective on things and realise that it was infinitely worse for the people who got dealt these terrible cards than for the people who are "burdened" with the memory of having some quasi-relationship with the people who dealt them.
I think suspiciously of anyone who believes they had anything to do with their countries most/least glorious achievements. It's a geographical coincidence. Let's realise it's more important to understand the terrible things ALL humans have done and feel a collective shame for the way we've treated each other instead of breaking up into stupid little groups called "countries" and fight over who did what to who. Why feel national shame when you can have shame for the entire species?
uplifting eh?