Hello.
HELLOOOOOOOOO...
Is it just me or does our objective media and do our virtuous politicians have a tendency of taking complex cultural (or political) issues and degrading them to Star Wars like terms of good and bad?
I could use a couple of examples, for instance:
- WW1: Germany's fault.
- Terrorism is bad.
- Mugabe is evil.
- Globalisation can't work.
But, after suffering the news the last couple of weeks, I want to utter my disbelief over the subject all over today's papers in England: The veil.
Never, in my short life as an inter-cultural worker, have I heard such simplistic drivel over such a complex issue.
Let me sum up a few facts before I go on:
1. The veil has more to do with culture than with religion.
2. Yes. Some women wear it out of choice.
3. Yes. Some women are forced to wear specific clothing.
4. Yes. Some women are oppressed and do not realise it.
5. Yes. Some men oppose their women wearing the veil, because they reckon it's safer to blend into Western society.
It's all true.
Now, I don't know what sort of Ritalin diet Jack Straw (him who was fired because Condi didn't like her welcome by his subjects) has been deprived off, but if you ask me, asking someone to dress differently, because it makes you feel uncomfortable is...
Say it together... PROJECTING YOUR OWN INSECURITIES.
Yes. Well done.
Jack also states that he wants to open up a debate about wearing the veil. There are, however, a couple of points that one must take into consideration.
- Britain is bombing various Muslim countries.
- The British media is very anti-Islam at this moment in time.
- Jack's goverment supports muslism being fired from various jobs.
- Jack personally welcomed Condi, who is not very well liked in most Islamic countries / cultures.
I could go on, but you get the jist. Perhaps, just maybe, PERHAPS, this just isn't the right moment for Jack to be trying to open a debate on this issue...
A B+ for effort, an E- for timing, if you like...
And as for helping emancipate women...Jeez...
If a woman's being oppressed by her husband into wearing a veil, wouldn't the knowledge that she has to take it off to speak to her MP, only bring the man to the conclusion that it's best if his wife DOESN'T go to see the MP?
So, even if Jack's intentions were good, they're going to be counter-productive! Who'd have guessed that a New Labour policy could be counter-productive?
And who was this culture minister who supported the sacking of a teacher wearing a veil? What the hell is that all about?
Yeah...let's get cultures working together by sacking people for their cultural expression!
Yup. Sounds like another New Labour winner to me. How can it fail?
"You can't teach if people can't see the expression on the teacher's face!"
Hell yeah! Let's burn libraries and pull the plug on internet university degrees, shall we!
Have you ever sat at the back of lecturing hall? YOU CAN'T SEE THE BLOODY FACIAL EXPRESSIONS OF THE BLOODY TEACHER FROM THAT BLOODY DISTANCE ANYWAYS!
Good grief.
Veiled faces are dangerous.
They are!
That's why we've banned teenagers from wearing hoods in shopping malls.
Dress like a bloody monk though. That's allowed.
And that's my tip of the day to all our terrorist brothers and comrades. Don't hide your bomb under your burkha, hide it under your Christian habit instead!
THE DECEIT. OH THE DECEIT...
Personally, I don't like people covering their faces, unless they're extremely unpleasant to look at.
But, surely it is up to them!
Equally, I believe in equality for women and that they SHOULD have the choice to wear what the hell they bloody well like (as little as possible, again, as far as I'm concerned). But, if we want to change culture, we're gonna have to be a hell of a lot more subtle about it.
Originally posted by shavixmirIn Catholic countries like Spain, Italy,... women won't enter a church without a scarf on their hair. Out of respect. Hair has always been associated to sensuality and it surely is for me 🙄
Hello.
HELLOOOOOOOOO...
Is it just me or does our objective media and do our virtuous politicians have a tendency of taking complex cultural (or political) issues and degrading them to Star Wars like terms of good and bad?
I could use a couple of examples, for instance:
- WW1: Germany's fault.
- Terrorism is bad.
- Mugabe is evil.
- Globalisat ...[text shortened]... e, we're gonna have to be a hell of a lot more subtle about it.
And nobody never saw a problem with that.
Have a muslim women do the same and it's the end of the world...again 😴
Originally posted by shavixmirThey're not Islamists they're ninjas!!!! Don't you know anything!!??
Hello.
HELLOOOOOOOOO...
Is it just me or does our objective media and do our virtuous politicians have a tendency of taking complex cultural (or political) issues and degrading them to Star Wars like terms of good and bad?
I could use a couple of examples, for instance:
- WW1: Germany's fault.
- Terrorism is bad.
- Mugabe is evil.
- Globalisat ...[text shortened]... e, we're gonna have to be a hell of a lot more subtle about it.
Originally posted by JeeThe difference is catholic women remove them out of church. Wearing one in church and wearing one in a classroom is hardly the same is it.
In Catholic countries like Spain, Italy,... women won't enter a church without a scarf on their hair. Out of respect. Hair has always been associated to sensuality and it surely is for me 🙄
And nobody never saw a problem with that.
Have a muslim women do the same and it's the end of the world...again 😴
Originally posted by wucky3Cultures retain a multiplicity of world views, we should respect each and every one of them. Just as a Westerner would think it outragous for a woman to be forced to wear a veil, certain Islamic cultures think it outragous that others would question its validity.
The difference is catholic women remove them out of church. Wearing one in church and wearing one in a classroom is hardly the same is it.
Originally posted by Serendipityand do you think my choice to wear a short skirt and high heels would be respected in their culture. No..I would be expected to dress as they do in their country
Cultures retain a multiplicity of world views, we should respect each and every one of them. Just as a Westerner would think it outragous for a woman to be forced to wear a veil, certain Islamic cultures think it outragous that others would question its validity.
Originally posted by wucky3That is true, but your choice of dress does not come from a philosophical or religous viewpoint as does theirs....And if you would think it wrong for Islamic cultures to expect you change your attire you should on the same premise think it wrong for Western cultures to want to change Islamic attire.
and do you think my choice to wear a short skirt and high heels would be respected in their culture. No..I would be expected to dress as they do in their country
Originally posted by wucky3But this is, surely, the exact reason why Europe is so great.
and do you think my choice to wear a short skirt and high heels would be respected in their culture. No..I would be expected to dress as they do in their country
We don't force people to dress in certain ways; we let people be as they are!
If we don't, then we're exactly that which we dislike.
Originally posted by wucky3Why don't you ask yourself why they don't keep it in school.
The difference is catholic women remove them out of church. Wearing one in church and wearing one in a classroom is hardly the same is it.
If you do something out of respect, like wearing a trousers not to be rude by showing your intimate part, then you don't do it only at church but in the street and at school as well.
Same here, if you think it's a form of respect to hide your hair (not to tempt men) than do it at school too.
When I was in India I noticed that every Hindu will remove its shoes before entering a temple but NEVER when entering a church. So I asked them why, one day and they just answer me, well catholic dont remove their shoes when going to church why will we?
So I said, but you remove your shoes out of respect when going to the temple why not showing the same respect when going in other people temples?
I think we reaching here the point where faith separates from culture. We do some things and don't do some other things because that's just the way society turned to be. But then that's culture and no more faith.
Some muslims don't see any reason to think differently when you are out of your church, and so have the same comitment outside the mosque.
I don't say that it's right or wrong, but it seems very logic to me:
If you take out your shoes when entering a house of faith, do it for every faith.
If you think you should cover your body, then do it all the time.
Originally posted by wucky3Are you sure this is YOUR choice or just the culture you live in?
and do you think my choice to wear a short skirt and high heels would be respected in their culture. No..I would be expected to dress as they do in their country
Do you think that boys wear jeans because they like it or because that's the occidental uniform when you have no idea of what to wear, and that there isn't much other choice anyway. Wearing anything else will be seen as extravagant.
When you are born and raised in a culture you just assimilate it and get use to it, no matter how stupid it is.
So you see all those ads everyday with half-naked girls on poster in order to sell yoghourt or cars and nobody reacts. You have those images of women acting like sluts in soaps, films,... and nobody reacts to it anymore. You've got those "singers" dressing like low-life and getting 8-10 years girls to dress like their idols with sexy stuff, and nobody reacts to that neither.
BUT what could possibly shocked you are woman who decided not to be look at like a box of candy but as human being.
I am sure short skirt are sexy 🙄
Aint too sure it goes in the way of respecting woman 🙁
Originally posted by shavixmirOff course we do - read my post above.
We don't force people to dress in certain ways; we let people be as they are!
Why do you think every culture dress differently!
HAve you notice how poor the choice of clothes is in Occident?
HAve you notice that at a party men can ONLY dressed in the same sad black tuxedo.
Where is your choice?
Originally posted by JeeMost people say I dress like a traffic accident.
Off course we do - read my post above.
Why do you think every culture dress differently!
HAve you notice how poor the choice of clothes is in Occident?
HAve you notice that at a party men can ONLY dressed in the same sad black tuxedo.
Where is your choice?
Orginal, but tragic.