17 Jun 04
Why do people still smoke? 😛
In the face of undeniable evidence linking smoking to the two most serious diseases we know: cancer and heart disease; in the face of growing public opposition to smoking and the banning of smokers from more and more public areas into small, filthy corners; in spite of this, why do peole still smoke??
It discolours their fingers, makes their breath smell foul, and all that at increasingly higher costs! It just doesn't make any sense!!
Is it cool? Is it sexy?
It is clear that smokers care neither for their own health, nor for the health of others. Nor are they in any way environmentally conscious: every day I see smokers throwing their glowing embers out of car windows. Fires next to our freeways are endemic in winter.
My question to any smokers on RHP is: Why on earth do you still do it??
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by CalJustHave you ever been adicted to anything? Ever? If not I don't think I can explain it to you. It would be like trying to explain love to someone who'd never been in love or pain to someone who's never experienced it.
[b]Why do people still smoke? 😛
In the face of undeniable evidence linking smoking to the two most serious diseases we know: cancer and heart disease; in the face of growing public opposition to smoking and the banning of smokers from more and more public areas into small, filthy corners; in spite of this, why do peole still smoke??
It discolou ...[text shortened]... endemic in winter.
My question to any smokers on RHP is: Why on earth do you still do it?? [/b]
There are many reasons, none of them particularly good.
It is a drug which alters our mental and physical state in a way we like. It's not certain to kill us. If it was then most would probably stop but the fact that it only makes us more likely to die means that in the back of your mind it'll be OK. It's to easy to ignore the chance of posibilities, and we've all got to die sometime, right?
In some circles it is 'cool'. To kids it shows you are a rebel or socialy more advanced than you peers. To working men it's a sign of earthy grittyness. To the arty farty crowd it's part of the unifoms... Sad as it is in many social circles those who smoke are seen to have an edge despite the logic against it.
Perversly smokers often do care for their health. I was the fittest person in our squad and the oonly smoker - I used to joke "if I can beat you now, imagine what I could do if I quit smoking". But fact that smoking has short term and long term health effects, although logically accepted, doesn't really seem relevent to the now. Once cigarette won't kill you and that's how we smoke the, one at a time, and this cigarette right now is insignificant.
To say that smokers don't care for the health of others is untrue. Most smokers (that I know) are very concientious about where and when they smoke, such as not where people are eating, keepingthe smoke out of peoples faces and not smoking in enclosed areas where this is unavoidable. This said, smokers need to smoke so whereever they are, once they've been as conciderate as they can be, they will smoke, and this often is to the detriment of the non smokers.
A favourate reason is that life is all about the highs versus the lows. You don't really appreciate the summer unless you've just had winter etc. Cigarettes give little mini highs & lows throughout the day, from wanting a cigarette to the pleasaure of release of when you have one (similar to when you've been dying for the loo). They can also act as mini rewards throughout the day, as little pick me ups.
People flicking cigarette butts out of the window annoy the hell out of me. If I lived in a dry country I'd probably ram the buggers off the road (but I do suffer from road rage).
Cost of cigarettes has nothing to do with it, money will always be found as it is for any drug. Time & again it is the poorer sections of society that smoke even though they are the least able to afford it. Maybe because they need the pick me ups more...?
There you go, a few reasons. There are many more and none of them are any more rational. But we are not rational beings.
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreaki have a friend that smokes (well-actually-i have more than one friend who smokes, but he's just the *erm* interesting one...😛)
Have you ever been adicted to anything? Ever? If not I don't think I can explain it to you. It would be like trying to explain love to someone who'd never been in love or pain to someone who's never experienced it.
There are many reasons, none of them particularly good.
It is a drug which alters our mental and physical state in a way we like. I ...[text shortened]... ons. There are many more and none of them are any more rational. But we are not rational beings.
he says he picked up smoking "cause it relaxes him". now then-i have tried smoking, and decided it's not for me...and whenever i tried it i've not found it in the slightest bit relaxing...
so, is it? 😕
or is it just kinda, well, relatively relaxing as you've been craving for a fag for ages and eventually got one type thing? a little "pick me up" as you said...?
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakThe three main things that I find annoying about smokers:
Have you ever been adicted to anything? Ever? If not I don't think I can explain it to you. It would be like trying to explain love to someone who'd never been in love or pain to someone who's never experienced it.
There are many reasons, none of them particularly good.
It is a drug which alters our mental and physical state in a way we like. I ...[text shortened]... ons. There are many more and none of them are any more rational. But we are not rational beings.
When I see somebody smoking in a car and there are small children in the back - inexcusable.
When I see an obviously poor family and the parents are smoking - prioritise for f**ks sake!
When I am enjoying a nice meal in a restaurant and some inconsiderate twat lights up and starts blowing the smoke around. I mean, fair enough if it's a pub - that's part of what a pub is and I wouldn't want to stop it. But a restaurant? The worst example of this I saw was some bloke who'd obviously just finished his meal and lit a massive cigar, blowing strong-smelling smoke around ðŸ˜
17 Jun 04
1 edit
It's disgusting, addiction is no excuse. Using it as such is either merely an admission to a weakness in your own character or you are using it as an excuse because you don't want to quit. In the later case I guess thats fine, your life, but at least admit it. In the first case many many people who smoke quit, it just requires a genuine desire to quit.
I have a friend who posts here every now and then, he's VERY sensitive about his smoking...lets see if he turns up to bite my head off 🙂
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by Simonmto answer as best I can:
It's disgusting, addiction is no excuse. Using it as such is either merely an admission to a weakness in your own character or you are using it as an excuse because you don't want to quit. In the later case I guess thats fine, your life, but at least admit it. In the first case many many people who smoke quit, it just requires a genuine desire to quit.
...[text shortened]... nd then, he's VERY sensitive about his smoking...lets see if he turns up to bite my head off 🙂
genius - smoking doesn't de-stress you but it gives the illusion that it does. When you crave a cigarette your stree levels rise, when you then have a cigarette your levels decline, but they only decline to the level they would have been if the craving hadn't risen them in the first place. You then learn that smoking = lessened stress so people smoke more when stressed, but any benefit from this is purely psychosymatic or because the act of smoking distracts you from whatever is causeing the stress.
Varg - people who smoke in enclosed spacs with kids need to be shot. I have to be physically restrained when I see pregnant girls smoking!
Poor families smoking is totally illogical but the truth is that the poorer you are the more likely you are to smoke. Logic doesn't come into it again, which is sad.
Restaurant smoking is not pleasent. Unfortunatly nothing tops off a meal like a cigarette so it is very common. The restaurant should separate smoking & non smoking area properly (not like one I was in that had tables side by side separated by a 3 foot wall) but many can't due to cost or logistics. IMHO they should then make themselves 100% non smoking and either have a smoking room or make the smokers go outside. Unfortunatly, if one establishment did this they would loss so much business they wouldn't easily survive which is why it's great when contries pass laws puttng all restautrants in the same position so that the concientios are not punished. nb. Your'e right, cigars are the worst!
Simonm - damn, your harsh! I ask again, have you ever been adicted to anything?
I've been addicted to several things in my life and I assure you cigarettes was the hardest to kick, so saying that addiction is either an excuse or a weekness isn't really fair. I agree with what you say, all you need is a good reason and determination to quit but even then it's not easy. The fight doesn't last days or weeks. Even though the physical addiction only last 3 days the habitual links last for years. I haven't smoked for 2 years but even now I have to at times resisit the ureg to have one because some part of my brain is still telling me I want one. Those times get further and further apart but all it takes is 1 slip and I'd be smoking again full time. I'd say it was fairer to say that people who want to quit but can't lack the strength not a weakness.
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakA friend of mine has given up drinking because she is trying to quit smoking and her will power is weakest after she has had a few drinks. So far, it's working because those 'slips' happened often when she was drinking.
Those times get further and further apart but all it takes is 1 slip and I'd be smoking again full time.
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakThanks for your honesty - it's quite refreshing!
I haven't smoked for 2 years but even now I have to at times resisit the ureg to have one because some part of my brain is still telling me I want one. Those times get further and further apart but all it takes is 1 slip and I'd be smoking again full time. I'd say it was fairer to say that people who want to quit but can't lack the strength not a weakness.
Yes, it is easy to be critical of others that struggle with what we (the enlightened "others"!) see as weakness. I had a friend who quit smoking and she said afterwards that it was the ACTIONS, not the actual tobacco, to which she was addicted! She would take out a cigarette, toy with it, put it in her mouth, and then back in her purse. It would freak me out!
But you answered my main question: the decision to smoke is NOT rational. There are many reasons why one starts, but once addicted, it's tough to stop. So the answer seems to be: don't start!
Strangely enough, I can see a certain camaraderie, fellowship if you like, in sitting with friends in front of a log fire smoking a slow pipe. Or sharing a hubbly-bubbly! (Even I have done that!) But doing this a few times a month is better than smoking twenty a day. My father-in-law died of lung cancer. He was a heavy smoker. His last days were agony.
On the subject of addiction one can write whole essays. I suppose the bottom line is how serious a particular addiction affects those around us and ourselves. Many housewives are addited to TV soaps, and that is another irrational behaviour I cannot for the life of me understand!
🙄😲🙄
(This topic occured to me whilst reading the "Land of the free.." thread. Maybe there are better ways of keeping our children from smoking than the one mentioned there!)
17 Jun 04
1 edit
Originally posted by Vargvery true. You crave a smoke when you are used to smoking (with a coffe, in a traffic jam, after a meal, in the pub...) and alcohol weakens your resolve.So mix teh 2, that you always smoke iwith a drink and your resolve is being pickled, and that is the most likely play for slips.
A friend of mine has given up drinking because she is trying to quit smoking and her will power is weakest after she has had a few drinks. So far, it's working because those 'slips' happened often when she was drinking.
I concidered quitting drinking to help me quit smoking for the same reason. Apart from anything else, you can't go out and enjoy yourself while everyone around you is smoking. Instead I went out and the first few times, when things got to the "Kill, death, maim" stage, I'd smoke a cheep cigar from behind the bar. This worked for me because it killed the craving but it's not the same action as cigarettes (you don't inhale) and I find them disgusting so that reenforced the feeling that smoking was not something wanted to do.
One warning for your friend (who I wish all the best & I'm sure it doing great). It's my personal theory that to kick the habit side of smoking you must do all the things that you used to do while smoking agia many times while not smoking. This slowly destroys the link betwen that action and smoking. After i had quit smoking for several months I thought I had it under control, but when I metup with a group of friends (all smokers who I used to smoke around) for the first time since I'd quit the craving s came back. They weren't as hard as they used to be but after having it under control for so long I wasn't prepared for them so they nearly got me. Even though she may avoid drinking now if she intends to go back to drinking she's got to be ready for the cravings to come back when she does because she won't have broken the drink = smoke link yet.
Top quitters tips:
"One won't hurt" - yes it will. If you still want one then you're still addicted in some way and that one will likely lead to 1 next time your n the same situation, and then 2 in that situation, then a new situation also. Once you've opened that door you're letting the habit a way back in. Remember the hell it was quitting in the first place and remind yourself that you don't eant to have to do that again.
"If the cravings never go away then I can't fight them forever" - once the first 3 days physical addictionis beaten the cravings are like waves. They come, peak, then go. The longer you stay quit the shorter and less intense the waves until they hardly occur and are barely noticable. Just keep your guard up for an unexpected big wave, which can hit occasioanlly when not expected. And remember that any slip up (ie. the "just one" that won't hurt) will just makes the waves bigger and longer again.
17 Jun 04
definatly ture. Like any minority group smokers tend to band together for moral support. I've shared friendly conversations withe directors because they were out the back gate having a cigarette at the same time as I was. It brings people together and onto the same level, with a common bond. The downside to this is that wanting to be in that group can make people (kids) want to start smoking and the fact that quitting will exclude you from those groups makes it harder for people to quit.
Strangely enough, I can see a certain camaraderie, fellowship if you like, in sitting with friends in front of a log fire smoking a slow pipe. Or sharing a hubbly-bubbly! (Even I have done that!) But doing this a few times a month is better than smoking twenty a day. My father-in-law died of lung cancer. He was a heavy smoker. His last days were agony.
No one resents an quitter more than someone who still smokes. Some will even try to sabotage your efforts to quit because if you succeed then you've done better than them but if you fail then they are secure in the fact that you're all in the pit together.
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakI never said it was easy, I know it's hard. Lots of things are hard though. I just said it's not an excuse for not quitting unless along with it goes the admission your weak of character. You gave up smoking, many others have too. It can be done, so people who don't give up yet claim they want to are evidently less strong of will than those that succeed. Or they don't really mean it. It they don't mean it thats fine, if people want to smoke thats their descion.
Simonm - damn, your harsh! I ask again, have you ever been adicted to anything?
I've been addicted to several things in my life and I assure you cigarettes was the hardest to kick, so saying that addiction is either an excuse or a weekness isn't really fair. I agree with what you say, all you need is a good reason and determination to quit but even ...[text shortened]... it was fairer to say that people who want to quit but can't lack the strength not a weakness.
The probelm is people who whine "It's hard" and just keep doing it, they are using the hardness of quitting as an excuse "it's not my fault, it's so hard!". I'd just like these people to take some responsiblitly for thier actions, it is your fault even if it is hard! "I want to quit but I can't!" BS, I'm not buying it, others have, you can to, if you don't want to just admit it!
If you want to replace all the times I say weakness in for lack of strength thats fine by me, both mean the same thing.
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by SimonmI know what we are saying is esentially the same thing, but I still think you're being harsh. I agree that people use the addiction as an excuse not to try but there are many people who would stop if not for the addiction, so it plays an important part.
I never said it was easy, I know it's hard. Lots of things are hard though. I just said it's not an excuse for not quitting unless along with it goes the admission your weak of character. You gave up smoking, many others have too. It can be done, so people who don't give up yet claim they want to are evidently less strong of will than those that succee ...[text shortened]... all the times I say weakness in for lack of strength thats fine by me, both mean the same thing.
The difference between people being weak or not having the strength is subtle and I'm not sure i can explain. For me to quit I had to make the decision, I had to set a date, I had to be mentally prepared... But I also had to have a time in my life where the rest of things were going well wnough for me to be able to take on the challenge.
Damn, this is difficult to explain... let's imagine that to quit smoking you have to offset the level of crap your taking with the level of strength you have. You get strength from internal resourse and from outside sources like family support. At the same time you have crap coming in from other stresses (family problems, work...). How much crap you can take depends on your resolve and resopurses, but how much crap each person has to go through differes from person to person. Anyone can quit smoking but it's harder for some than for others.
I repeat my questio - have you every been addicted to anything? It's very hard to explain addiction to someone who has never experienced it. It's also very easy to preach to the addicted if you don't know what they're going through. (which is why reformed addicts make the best addiction councellors)
17 Jun 04
Originally posted by belgianfreakI'm strangley addicted to this froum, I really aught to do some work!
I repeat my questio - have you every been addicted to anything? It's very hard to explain addiction to someone who has never experienced it. It's also very easy to preach to the addicted if you don't know what they're going through. (which is why reformed addicts make the best addiction councellors)
Seriously though, while I do have an understanding of cravings (sometimes I just gotta have a beer) I've never actually been addicted to anything I don't think.
17 Jun 04
Where to start?
I think a wee quote by the late, yet ultimately great, Bill Hicks should get us rolling: "I'd stop smoking if I wasn't so scared of turning into one of you non-smokers...sanctimonious bastards, the lot of you."
I'm a non-smoker. Fair enough, I'm addicted to enough drugs as it is and tobacco on my breath on top of the beer and garlic would probably push my social skills over the edge of reason. Anyway...I wish I did smoke. I'd blow smoke in every whinging, whining, complaining pretentious non-smoker's face I had the misfortune to stumble over.
Seriously...what about exaust fumes? How healthy are they?
What about factory gasses? How enjoyable are they?
Oh. gotta go. I'll finish this another time.