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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber joe shmo
    Strange Egg
    29 Mar '16 01:45
    Chief Architect of Obamacare and MIT professor Gruber is an elitist a#@hole. Enjoy the show! ( Media coverage is almost non existent on the lie carefully designed to fool stupid Americans...why do you suppose that is?)

    http://kval.com/news/nation-world/full-measure-obamacare-cadillac-tax
  2. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    29 Mar '16 01:58
    Originally posted by joe shmo
    Chief Architect of Obamacare and MIT professor Gruber is an elitist a#@hole. Enjoy the show! ( Media coverage is almost non existent on the lie carefully designed to fool stupid Americans...why do you suppose that is?)

    http://kval.com/news/nation-world/full-measure-obamacare-cadillac-tax
    umadbro?
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    29 Mar '16 10:22
    Originally posted by joe shmo
    Chief Architect of Obamacare and MIT professor Gruber is an elitist a#@hole. Enjoy the show! ( Media coverage is almost non existent on the lie carefully designed to fool stupid Americans...why do you suppose that is?)

    http://kval.com/news/nation-world/full-measure-obamacare-cadillac-tax
    What worrying propositions. Obviously only a very stupid American would fall for a scheme to make the costs of health care progressive rather than regressive, or to remove tax breaks from the wealthy which ordinary people do not benefit from. Whether the American voters are stupid or not, of course, it is a Republican dominated Congress and Senate that would be allowing such horrors to pass without scrutiny. It seems they are too stupid to understand tax. Maybe because they cleverly don't pay much if they can help it. But I was a bit unclear of the reasoning for employers to withdraw health benefit on account of the loss of tax breaks for their employees, which I would have thought was not the employers' problem. Is it that employers are taking the opportunity to withdraw benefits from their employees and want to blame Obama? One way or another, #OnlyinAmerica would this weird article appear remotely rational.
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    29 Mar '16 10:42 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by joe shmo
    Chief Architect of Obamacare and MIT professor Gruber is an elitist a#@hole. Enjoy the show! ( Media coverage is almost non existent on the lie carefully designed to fool stupid Americans...why do you suppose that is?)

    http://kval.com/news/nation-world/full-measure-obamacare-cadillac-tax
    Crafting a healthcare plan designed to provide millions of people with health insurance that could not afford it is never going to be perfect. I'm sorry you disapprove of this situation, but the old pay or die system was even more imperfect. Tens of millions of people now have health insurance that did not have before, so....maybe American voters are not as stupid as you claim.
  5. 29 Mar '16 13:49
    Obamacare is so wonderful that now both party's want to end it.
  6. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    29 Mar '16 14:57
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    umadbro?
    You think?
  7. 29 Mar '16 15:14
    Originally posted by bill718
    Crafting a healthcare plan designed to provide millions of people with health insurance that could not afford it is never going to be perfect. I'm sorry you disapprove of this situation, but the old pay or die system was even more imperfect. Tens of millions of people now have health insurance that did not have before, so....maybe American voters are not as stupid as you claim.
    "pay or die" is a gross exaggeration. People without insurance get treated, with or without credit. Many don't pay, and after some superficial dunning, their dept is sold to collection agents who rarely collect squat.

    The great majority of procedures are overcharged to account for those that they know will never pay, and insurance companies barter with providers to arrive at actual costs which are never made public.

    One thing the extra complexity does accomplish is to make it easier for con artists to get more out of the system.
  8. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    29 Mar '16 15:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    "pay or die" is a gross exaggeration. People without insurance get treated, with or without credit. Many don't pay, and after some superficial dunning, their dept is sold to collection agents who rarely collect squat.

    The great majority of procedures are overcharged to account for those that they know will never pay, and insurance companies barter w ...[text shortened]... a complexity does accomplish is to make it easier for con artists to get more out of the system.
    Oh, I see. So medical bankruptcy for millions of Americans is a wonderful alternative to the affordable healthcare act. Hmmmmmm......
  9. 29 Mar '16 15:35
    Originally posted by bill718
    Oh, I see. So medical bankruptcy for millions of Americans is a wonderful alternative to the affordable healthcare act. Hmmmmmm......
    Lots of people face medical bankruptcy anyway. It really isn't so bad. Bankruptcy just forgives your debts subject to some reality checking by the courts.
  10. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    29 Mar '16 15:54
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Lots of people face medical bankruptcy anyway. It really isn't so bad. Bankruptcy just forgives your debts subject to some reality checking by the courts.
    Thankfully most Americans don't see things that way.
  11. 29 Mar '16 16:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Thankfully most Americans don't see things that way.
    What would be better? Debtors prisons? Most people don't understand that bankruptcy forgives your debts.
  12. 29 Mar '16 18:11
    Originally posted by normbenign
    What would be better? Debtors prisons? Most people don't understand that bankruptcy forgives your debts.
    Two words: credit history.
  13. Subscriber joe shmo
    Strange Egg
    29 Mar '16 21:58 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    Crafting a healthcare plan designed to provide millions of people with health insurance that could not afford it is never going to be perfect. I'm sorry you disapprove of this situation, but the old pay or die system was even more imperfect. Tens of millions of people now have health insurance that did not have before, so....maybe American voters are not as stupid as you claim.
    "Tens of millions of people now have health insurance that did not have before, so...."

    1) Why should I care, and more specifically... Why should "I" foot the bill?

    "maybe American voters are not as stupid as you claim."

    2) I didn't make that claim (although on whole its obviously true)...the designer of the bill (Gruber) and the dems. corrupt team of adviser's intentionally wrote it in a "tortured language" to get it through. As presented in the article (and by Gruber himself!) the concept of screwing the American middle class is quite obvious. I somehow doubt the language of the actual bill is anything but clear and succinct (unlike Grubers astounding arrogance that was no doubt carefully crafted during his elitist and liberal indoctrination at Harvard). So yes...surely most of the bill would be completely lost on the general public...by design.
  14. 29 Mar '16 22:26
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Two words: credit history.
    People can survive and prosper without credit. Credit is a scam to get you to buy more than you can afford. If you're "for the little guy" you'd be fighting the gathering of credit histories, and promoting borrowing as a way of life.