Sun Tzu

“Warfare is vital to the state—it is the ground of death and life, the way of survival and destruction, so it is imperative to examine it.”

—Sun Tzu, The Art of War (quotation rendered from various translations).

StarValleyWy (aka Mike) brought up Sun Tzu in another thread, and sent me back to the book. I wanted to ask some questions, and see where the discussion might go.

(1) What is the “state”? Sun Tzu may have written during the “warring states” period in China, and hence his counsel would’ve been for any “feudal” king. However, today it might mean one’s nation, or one’s culture, or one’s religion or life-philosophy, or one’s own physical domain (family, etc.).

(2) Though many may eschew any kind of warrior paradigm in their life, at what point—under what circumstances—might each of us “go to war” over our principles or in personal defense (and in what manner), despite other religious or philosophical objections? And does such a possibility merit examination/preparation in advance?

I am not asking the questions so much in theory as de facto (insofar as we can judge such things in advance).

For myself, I have always taken a kind of “ripple in the pond” stance, without really thinking about it much. The center “ripple” is my wife and myself: under any threat of harm I am committed to taking whatever action is necessary to removing the threat—without regard to ideas such as “minimum necessary force” (by that I mean that I will employ whatever force I deem necessary to prevent the harm). Then there are my children and her children, other family and friends, etc., etc. At some point, the “ripples” are likely to seem far enough away that I simply shrug them off. All this seems to me to be totally separate from any other philosophical or “spiritual” considerations.

I am neither asserting nor defending this position—as yet. I simply acknowledge it as my de facto modus operandi. I am simply trying to ask the questions...

NOTE: Much of Sun Tzu's counsel seems aimed at preventing actual violence, by being prepared.

It's quite simple.

The true art of war is to know which battles can be won without fighting, which battles are lost without fighting, and which battles are lost regardless of cause.

The the truly skilled warrior will limit his attacks to those that are most effective and efficient. Thus, one may minimize the risk involved in fighting.

But if anything is to be gained, it must not be at the expense of the honor/dignity of your friend or foe. It is neither effective, nor efficient.


Edit: Personally, my list would have the children first, then the wife, and only then will it have other people...

Originally posted by Tetsujin
It's quite simple.

The true art of war is to know which battles can be won without fighting, which battles are lost without fighting, and which battles are lost regardless of cause.

The the truly skilled warrior will limit his attacks to those that are most effective and efficient. Thus, one may minimize the risk involved in fighting.

But if anythi ...[text shortened]... y list would have the children first, then the wife, and only then will it have other people...

Just a bit of experience talking there.

A debate is not so different from war. There is no place for emotional attachements, and you must be swift, clever, and firm in all aspects.


It's a bit like chess, but chess is boring...