@shavixmir saidA nice post. So could you give us an example of what all of us on the forum would be typically doing today?
Roughly.
There are various ways to approach it all.
Socialism does have taxation (if you accept the definition that it’s different than communism).
Communism doesn’t really need taxation. As you suggested, you don’t really need wages.
@AverageJoe1 saidOne could implement a transaction tax, which would apply to any transfer of funds for any purpose whatsoever either between private persons or corporations. One could thereby do away with all other taxes, including income tax, property tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, etc. this would eliminate any possibility of tax evasion or tax avoidance. furthermore, one could implement a guaranteed minimum income for all persons for life and thereby eliminate a complete spectrum of separate social benefits, including unemployment insurance and pension funds. This would have the further benefit of massively simplifying federal bureaucracy.
A post today related taxation and Marx in same sentence. Query: what would the system , the arrangement, be, whereupon citizens would pay income tax? Oops, strike the word income, as folks would not necessarily even have income as we know it today.
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@moonbus saidI like that, but you are a bit ahead of the issue. Shouse would say you are ahead of the beat. First, we need to deal with the question...
One could implement a transaction tax, which would apply to any transfer of funds for any purpose whatsoever either between private persons or corporations. One could thereby do away with all other taxes, including income tax, property tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, etc. this would eliminate any possibility of tax evasion or tax avoidance. furthermore, one could i ...[text shortened]... and pension funds. This would have the further benefit of massively simplifying federal bureaucracy.
What would be a typical day of a person who lived in a Marxist society? You can delve into free time, vacations, trips into the country, or a sojourn across Italy or the American west....Like, how would you plan for the trip, hotels, etc, transportation. Or, hobbies like gardening or painting plein air, working on an old vintage car, whatever. What would be typical?
@AverageJoe1 saidI would guess a more progressive income tax to pay the national debt. But that is assuming paying off debt is a priority. If it is not there is no reason for an income tax. You can have the central bank create money out of nothing and tax people with inflation. That is already happening now so we are being taxed for both.
A post today related taxation and Marx in same sentence. Query: what would the system , the arrangement, be, whereupon citizens would pay income tax? Oops, strike the word income, as folks would not necessarily even have income as we know it today.
Before long the debt will be so bad the only way we will be able to pay the interest on that debt is with a lot of both. It is called economic slavery and it was probably planned out that way.
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@AverageJoe1 saidNo. How could I possibly do that?
A nice post. So could you give us an example of what all of us on the forum would be typically doing today?
If you’re a plumber, you’d be plumbing. If you’re a farmer, you’d be farming, if you are unemployed, you’d be doing work that needs to be done which suits your abilities and if you are a banker, you will almost certainly be doing something other than banking.
People’s needs and wants don’t change because of the economic system.
To simplify it: instead od running trains to make a profit, the trains are run to get people from A to B on time.
“Ooohhh people won’t do anything without financial reward!”
Utter BS. Your daddy didn’t pay your momma to have sex… and yet, here ya are!
So other things motivate people. And that’s what you tap into.
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@shavixmir saidErr, how do you know he didn’t pay her ?
No. How could I possibly do that?
If you’re a plumber, you’d be plumbing. If you’re a farmer, you’d be farming, if you are unemployed, you’d be doing work that needs to be done which suits your abilities and if you are a banker, you will almost certainly be doing something other than banking.
People’s needs and wants don’t change because of the economic system.
To ...[text shortened]... to have sex… and yet, here ya are!
So other things motivate people. And that’s what you tap into.
😀
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@AverageJoe1 saidEverything people typically do now would continue to be typical. Except that a few job descriptions would disappear (tax consultant, for example). Bakers would still bake bread, auto mechanics would still fix broken vehicles, hotel receptionists would still reserve rooms for holiday makers, and people who wanted to work would still keep some portion of the profits they made above and beyond the state-guaranteed minimum. The main things which would disappear are: the FEARS of having one’s needs no longer met if one lost one’s job, of being evicted for failure to pay the rent, of dying alone under a bridge for lack of basic medical care. I do not for an instant believe that most people are so lazy and stubborn that they would refuse sensible work but just suck up benefits and do nothing with their lives. A few would at first, but they would get bored of it. What people resent is being forced by the fears listed above (not being able to pay rent and medical care) to work in pointless jobs for permanent-poverty wages while enriching fat cats.
I like that, but you are a bit ahead of the issue. Shouse would say you are ahead of the beat. First, we need to deal with the question...
What would be a typical day of a person who lived in a Marxist society? You can delve into free time, vacations, trips into the country, or a sojourn across Italy or the American west....Like, how would you plan for the trip, ho ...[text shortened]... ke gardening or painting plein air, working on an old vintage car, whatever. What would be typical?
I grant that this is a utopian vision and that every state which has so far attempted to implement it has failed miserably. Not least because they needed secret police and gulags to make it work.
But it is still an interesting thought experiment, whether it could work voluntarily (without secret police or gulags).
BTW, this would be compatible with continued private ownership of corporate bodies, so not necessarily strictly Marxist. Provided there were structural mechanisms implemented to enforce a collective transaction tax.
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@AverageJoe1 saidyou have no idea what marxism is
A post today related taxation and Marx in same sentence. Query: what would the system , the arrangement, be, whereupon citizens would pay income tax? Oops, strike the word income, as folks would not necessarily even have income as we know it today.
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@Metal-Brain saidThis is not a pretty picture. So Marxism is not a good thing, based on what you are saying? I am trying to keep this a simple discussion. And yes, as I have been accused of, I am not sure what Marxism is. Like my wife, who works for herself, not a govt job, flies to Europe 6 times a year to work on 'deals' , for lack of a better word. She flies first class, a trip with all the accoutrements. She makes more money than a lot of citizens, to put it bluntly.
I would guess a more progressive income tax to pay the national debt. But that is assuming paying off debt is a priority. If it is not there is no reason for an income tax. You can have the central bank create money out of nothing and tax people with inflation. That is already happening now so we are being taxed for both.
Before long the debt will be so bad the only w ...[text shortened]... ic slavery and it was probably planned out that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8rbC8b74ps
Would anything change about her life. A fair question as we thresh out living in Marxism.
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@shavixmir saidPeoples needs don't change? The banker you mention has a need for his beach house on weekends, and for his plane. He is a retired pilot and has a small King Air to play with. Those are just two of his needs.
No. How could I possibly do that?
People’s needs and wants don’t change because of the economic system.
So my question, Shav. Would these needs of his change? And, he has several cars and would not DREAM of getting on one of those not-for-profit trains. I am not being cute, I am asking for a thoughtful answer. Teach me something!
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@moonbus saidUtopian points of view are welcome, but let us not avoid a bit of realism.
Everything people typically do now would continue to be typical. Except that a The main things which would disappear are: the FEARS of having one’s needs no longer met if one lost one’s job, of being evicted for failure to pay the rent, of dying alone under a bridge for lack of basic medical care. I do not for an instant believe that most people are so lazy and stubborn tha ...[text shortened]... nt and medical care) to work in pointless jobs for permanent-poverty wages while enriching fat cats.
Take this paragraph I singled out here. You highlight folks in the lower levels of the economy. Are you saying Marxism should be implemented in order to accommodate those citizens? 50M of our citizens are in the shape that you describe, today. Fear, debt, medical needs. I think we should take care of those folks. And this country can do that. So I submit, for purposes of this discussion, that we set those folks aside and pay for them. Today, Lets just do it.
So back to Marxism for the rest of society. Me for instance. You and Sonhouse. Normal citizens, if you will. I think we should discuss society on the whole. What would be a typical life for us? Would some entity tell my wife how to live her life, for example, as serious traveler who makes good money doing it? And she can't use a train.