Originally posted by normbenign
Unfortunately, democracy encourages building the biggest gang.

But that is at the heart and soul of every collectivist.

Build the biggest gang and impose your will on everyone.

That is why the Founders originally opted for Republic with representatives, equal amounts for each state even if those states had a small population. It was an attempt to avoid tyranny via numbers. Shrug, the ultimately failed.

Originally posted by normbenign
Unfortunately, democracy encourages building the biggest gang.

Yawn... actually, politicians have an incentive in a democracy to pander to the wishes of the minority as long as the majority does not mind - see for example farm subsidies. Farmers are very clearly a minority yet "the biggest gang" does not seem to want to stop them from getting their money. Many such examples exist - when three quarters of the population likes blue hats, and one quarter likes red hats, which type of hat will politicians ban? Typically neither of them.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Yawn... actually, politicians have an incentive in a democracy to pander to the wishes of the minority as long as the majority does not mind - see for example farm subsidies. Farmers are very clearly a minority yet "the biggest gang" does not seem to want to stop them from getting their money. Many such examples exist - when three quarters of the popula ...[text shortened]... d one quarter likes red hats, which type of hat will politicians ban? Typically neither of them.

The GOP ignored their base till the point of voting Donald.

They still don't seem to care.

Originally posted by whodey
The GOP ignored their base till the point of voting Donald.

They still don't seem to care.

Meanwhile you are voting for GWB 2.0, which - to put it whodeyesquely - is hilarious.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Yawn... actually, politicians have an incentive in a democracy to pander to the wishes of the minority as long as the majority does not mind - see for example farm subsidies. Farmers are very clearly a minority yet "the biggest gang" does not seem to want to stop them from getting their money. Many such examples exist - when three quarters of the popula ...[text shortened]... d one quarter likes red hats, which type of hat will politicians ban? Typically neither of them.

Colorful hats aren't the issues that divide people politically. Farm subsidies to create a stir now and then, but when voters recognize that farmers feed them, the stir dies down.

What you identify, is politicians reluctance to touch "third rail" issues. Often these issues remain mainly for political talking points (for example abortion) with nobody intending to change anything.

This leads to the attitude that "there isn't a dime's worth of difference". In many cases, the political process in this democracy is a tempest in a teapot.

Originally posted by whodey
Should those who pay taxes be the only ones who vote?

If not, then it seems to me that those being taxed are being taxed without adequate representation.

It is really no different than people in a distant land being able to vote in order to raise the taxes of those who actually pay taxes.

Given the many types of taxes and their pervasive reach in any modern society, the question is moot: everyone pays taxes.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Given the many types of taxes and their pervasive reach in any modern society, the question is moot: everyone pays taxes.

No, not everyone pays taxes, or if they do pay taxes, they pay a very small amount of taxes.

The vast majority of taxes are progressive taxes, thus targeting the upper percentile of taxpayers. What then usually happens is, the very rich get around these taxes through loopholes and lawyers, while the middle class to upper middle class get hammered. Corporations like GE who support politicians like Obama I hear don't even pay taxes.

If politicians want to increase taxes, then we all should suffer. This would end this insanity of not caring about spending patterns and deficits. But as it stands, no one gives a damn except a powerless minority who are exploited by Marxist policies. This is why the country has runaway debt.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Given the many types of taxes and their pervasive reach in any modern society, the question is moot: everyone pays taxes.

Nope, the way you calculate this is:

Do you receive more from the goobermint than what they take from you. That BS money merry-go-round, is just that, BS. Do you, on nett, receive more from the gummint than you are made to give the gummint. If the answer is yes then you do not pay tax.

Originally posted by whodey
No, not everyone pays taxes, or if they do pay taxes, they pay a very small amount of taxes.

The vast majority of taxes are progressive taxes, thus targeting the upper percentile of taxpayers. What then usually happens is, the very rich get around these taxes through loopholes and lawyers, while the middle class to upper middle class get hammered. Corpor ...[text shortened]... rless minority who are exploited by Marxist policies. This is why the country has runaway debt.

You really don't know what you are talking about; many taxes are regressive such as sales taxes and property taxes.

Originally posted by Wajoma
Nope, the way you calculate this is:

Do you receive more from the goobermint than what they take from you. That BS money merry-go-round, is just that, BS. Do you, on nett, receive more from the gummint than you are made to give the gummint. If the answer is yes then you do not pay tax.

It's interesting how you follow the statement "the way you calculate is..." by not saying how you would calculate it.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You really don't know what you are talking about; many taxes are regressive such as sales taxes and property taxes.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html

The top 1% pay half of federal income taxes, but you are correct, the poor do pay many regressive taxes, but then, what government assistance are they given to offset this?

And where do they get the money? They just print it creating an inflationary effect so that money is worth less for everyone.

Wash, rinse, repeat. It is taxation without people really noticing what is going on. Like a frog in a pot as the temperature is slowly turned higher and higher.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
A brilliant idea, Wajoma. How many attoseconds of thought did you put into it?

How would you even measure how much taxes someone pays? How would you handle the incentives this gives government employees to obtain high gross incomes with high taxes? How would you deal with the angry mobs of retirees who just lost their vote because they decided, like the lazy freeloaders they are, to retire after 50 years of working?

I personally have invested several lifetimes in formulating this theory. It's self levelling, or if you prefer, it levels itself.

It was inspired by this Mencken quote.

"Government is the great fiction through which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else."

You see everyone would be trying to vote down how much tax they pay, while trying to vote up what the other fellow pays. As the amount of tax they pay comes down so does the influence of their vote. I would have thought the goobermint has a pretty good idea of how much tax a citizen pays, the only thing left would be to calculate the voting weight versus the tax paid, I call this 'game theory'.

Originally posted by Wajoma
I personally have invested several lifetimes in formulating this theory. It's self levelling, or if you prefer, it levels itself.

It was inspired by this Mencken quote.

"Government is the great fiction through which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else."

You see everyone would be trying to vote down how much tax they pay, while try ...[text shortened]... ing left would be to calculate the voting weight versus the tax paid, I call this 'game theory'.

Have you pondered the answers to the following questions:

How would you even measure how much taxes someone pays? How would you handle the incentives this gives government employees to obtain high gross incomes with high taxes? How would you deal with the angry mobs of retirees who just lost their vote because they decided, like the lazy freeloaders they are, to retire after 50 years of working?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra


How would you even measure how much taxes someone pays?

The solution is to use a mathematical operation called addition. Where it gets tricky is that some of the numbers being added additionally are negative numbers, if you have a computer program called 'excel' this can handle negative numbers and saves wasting (edit denoted by double quotation marks) "valuable" brain space trying to figure it out.

Originally posted by Wajoma
The solution is to use a mathematical operation called addition. Where it gets tricky is that some of the numbers being added additionally are negative numbers, if you have a computer program called 'excel' this can handle negative numbers and saves wasting (edit denoted by double quotation marks) "valuable" brain space trying to figure it out.

What are the numbers you would add and subtract, specifically?