27 Mar 05
5 edits
One of Bbarr's posts in the "Schiavo's feeding tube removed" thread page 17, reacting to one of KellyJays posts and backing one of Nemesio's claims:
23 Mar '05 16:28 :: 0 recommendations
Originally posted by KellyJay
"I grew tired of hearing she was already dead, she is not, now everyone
here is admitting to that. Her condition is bad, very bad, no one is
denying that. My only point is does that give you or anyone else the
right to starve her to death, or make her die of thirst? I worked in a
VA hospital for 14 years, and there were several people in bad
conditions ...[text shortened]... er misery, shoot her in the head. The result is the
same only the method is different.
Kelly"
Bbarr: So you think that it is remotely plausible that a human organism that lacks a cerebrum can experience suffering? Do you have any evidence for this?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI have it on good authority that Bennett was up very late last night.
Bbarr: So you think that it is remotely plausible that a human organism that lacks a cerebrum can experience suffering? Do you have any evidence for this?
He went to the Easter Vigil solemn Mass at his local Roman Catholic
Cathedral, where the bishop does all seven readings during the service.
There were 19 candidates for Baptism and another 12 for first Holy
Communion and Confirmation, and the service went over long. Furthermore,
the bishop used incense during the solemn procession, on the Paschal
Candle itself, on the Book of Gospels, and during the Offertory, which
made him a little light headed.
He might not be able to responde today.
Nemesio
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThere is no reason to give Schiavo morphine, other than as a pain-killer for her parents and their supporters. But giving morphine is standard procedure in hospise care, so... Read the medical evidence, Ivanhoe.
This is a remarkable action considering the claim of many, also on this debates forum (Bbarr, Nemesio, No1) that Terri has lost the capacity to suffer. They used this "fact" to justify Terri's killing.
If indeed Terri lost the capacity to suffer why give her morfine ?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by NemesioYou know very well Nemesio that I only celebrate Good Friday.
I have it on good authority that Bennett was up very late last night.
He went to the Easter Vigil solemn Mass at his local Roman Catholic
Cathedral, where the bishop does all seven readings during the service.
There were 19 candidates for Baptism and another 12 for first Holy
Communion and Confirmation, and the service went over long. Furthermore, ...[text shortened]... which
made him a little light headed.
He might not be able to responde today.
Nemesio
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by Nemesio
I have it on good authority that Bennett was up very late last night.
He went to the Easter Vigil solemn Mass at his local Roman Catholic
Cathedral, where the bishop does all seven readings during the service.
There were 19 candidates for Baptism and another 12 for first Holy
Communion and Confirmation, and the service went over long. Furthermore, ...[text shortened]... which
made him a little light headed.
He might not be able to responde today.
Nemesio
Red herrings
27 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by bbarr
There is no reason to give Schiavo morphine, other than as a pain-killer for her parents and their supporters. But giving morphine is standard procedure in hospise care, so... Read the medical evidence, Ivanhoe.
You cannot use one "fact", the loss of the capacity to suffer, to justify her killing and on the other hand giving her morfine as a painkiller for "her parents and her supporters". This is a cynical approach. It is irrational giving people painkillers who cannot suffer anymore given the "medical evidence". Why would they act contrary the medical evidence ? Because it is a standard procedure ? Just to follow the rules ? .... or maybe to err on the safe side ?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI see no reason to give her morphine, as there are no intact pain pathways in her brain. But we could look at their justifications and see. Where did you get this information?
You cannot use one "fact", the loss of the capacity to suffer, to justify her killing and on the other hand giving her morfine as a painkiller for "her parents and her supporters". This is a cynical approach. It is irrational giving people painkillers who cannot suffer anymore given the "medical evidence". Why would they act contrary the medical evid ...[text shortened]... it is a standard procedure ? Just to follow the rules ? .... or maybe to err on the safe side ?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by bbarrAssuming that she was given morphine, let's look at why morphine is given in the hospice setting. It is mostly given for relief of pain. There are many ways to deliver morphine derivitives. There are pills in many varieties and doses. It is sometimes delivered through IV's. It can also be delivered with long acting patches that come in a variety of doses. But morphine is frequently used with people who suffer from shortness of breath (emphysema or COPD). Morphine in these instances has been found to be very effective with reducing what is called "air hunger" and helps patients to relax in their final stages.
I see no reason to give her morphine, as there are no intact pain pathways in her brain. But we could look at their justifications and see. Where did you get this information?
27 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by kirksey957
Assuming that she was given morphine, let's look at why morphine is given in the hospice setting. It is mostly given for relief of pain. There are many ways to deliver morphine derivitives. There are pills in many varieties and doses ...[text shortened]... "air hunger" and helps patients to relax in their final stages.
Why going through all that trouble if the "official medical evidence" shows Terri is not capable of suffering ?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeIvanhoe, I have worked with many families in these situations. When patients are what we call "actively dying" as this woman is, they may be making noises that are symptomatic of being close to death. It doesn't mean that they are suffering or cognizant of imminent death, even if they have a cerebral cortex. Sometimes morphine has the side effect of helping the family.
Why going through all that trouble if the "official medical evidence" shows Terri is not capable of suffering ?