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@Kewpie saidWell, the one beef I have with this is that DEI is not trivial fluff to the people who have been denied their rights as human beings in the United States for centuries.
We're not an unrestrained capitalist country, our democracy comes from people's votes and not from powerful money.
Sports associations have rules based on fairness and individual rights, developed over long periods, and they have clear guidelines based on scientific physiology and not who shouts the loudest or has the biggest wallet. Meritocracy rules, with some tinkering ov ...[text shortened]... rt are non-issues here? Our issues are environmental, historical, but not trivial snowflake stuff.
Yes, I understand this might not be a real issue for Australians, but you do have a similar group of people in your country and that is the "Indigenous peoples".
EDIT: I did not mean to say that you deny Indiginous peoples their rights. I meant to say that you have "been there, done that" and gotten over it.
I fully agree with the rest of your post regarding the difference between those who have (money and power) versus those who have not. America is existing in an alternate-reality where anyone not of the white male upper (monied) class just doesn't exist. They're merely sheep to be manipulated. As you say, in many ways, Australia has grown past all that, just like much of the world at large. So here is America still struggling with the idea of giving value to people based on gender or skin color. (We are so infantilized that we cannot even agree that global warming must be ameliorated.) When one has a government hell-bent on eradicating help for anyone they do not deem as "deserving", DEI is still a "big deal". And this is why I speak out about it.
@AverageJoe1 saidI wasn't going to reply to you at all here, as this is not the thread for it, but the problem here is that you people (yes, YOU people) don't think that anyone belonging to a minority deserves "meritocracy". Every single time someone makes a point to hire a minority person, what have we heard from you for ages? "Whatever happened to the best person for the job, getting the job?" This is my point. YOU automatically think ANY minority person is NOT the best person for the job, BECAUSE they are not white. Yet you cannot even see how your attitude demeans minority people.
Thank you, a very good post indeed. We can garner that Meritocracy rules in Australia. The minority in the USA wants DEI. I agree with you and with Australia.
I agree with all else that you write, I myself find nothing wrong with same sex marriage, an agreement between 2 people. I would be quite the hypocrite if I did not. Freedom. Your locking men out with door ...[text shortened]... we all agree with welfare, etc for the poor, but Bernie says ALL AMERICANS. "It is a HUMAN Right!!"
And THIS is the very reason why DEI became a thing. To right this ever present wrong.
And just so you are set right, Australia is not NEARLY as racist as the US. NO place in the WORLD is as racist as the US, except maybe a few authoritarian states. They do NOT "agree" with your particular brand of racism. Just so you know, and stop insulting Kewpie with this idea that she agrees with you.
I can't speak for anyone other than myself here.
The constant bleating about "free stuff" makes me turn off. Decent people care about those less fortunate than themselves, WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE DEFINED AS DESERVING. Decent people want everyone to have enough food and warmth and adequate shelter and safety. Decent people contribute to this, through their taxes and don't whine about "free stuff", rather we "walk a mile in their shoes".
There are levels of disadvantage, some can be addressed, others cannot. If I choose to live in an isolated area, I must accept a lower availability of medical services, but that's a choice I make. If I choose alcoholism, my child may never be able to hold down a job in its entire life. That child is owed support from the community whose anti-abortion stance forced it to be born and raised inadequately.
Racism is inhumanity. It's bizarre that it even exists in a country which claims to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.
@Suzianne saidAmnesty International doesn't present quite as rosy a picture of Australia as this thread does:
I wasn't going to reply to you at all here, as this is not the thread for it, but the problem here is that you people (yes, YOU people) don't think that anyone belonging to a minority deserves "meritocracy". Every single time someone makes a point to hire a minority person, what have we heard from you for ages? "Whatever happened to the best person for the job, gett ...[text shortened]... and of racism. Just so you know, and stop insulting Kewpie with this idea that she agrees with you.
"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia continue to face very different life outcomes than the non-Indigenous population. The ongoing dispossession and racism towards Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people contribute to the huge gaps in health, life expectancy and imprisonment rates today."
https://www.amnesty.org.au/how-it-works/what-are-indigenous-rights/
@no1marauder saidWe're still a long way from sorting out our relationships with indigenous people, but in my lifetime we've moved from obliteration to coexistence to affirmative action. For example, we struggle with the conflict between the cultural desire to live "on country" and the inability to supply city-level services to places where there are no doctors or schoolteachers and no inducement is enough to get them into those places. However, there's a lot of goodwill between the parties and few of us play hate games - sporting brawls aren't colour-coded and there are yobs in every place where communities exist.
Amnesty International doesn't present quite as rosy a picture of Australia as this thread does:
"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia continue to face very different life outcomes than the non-Indigenous population. The ongoing dispossession and racism towards Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people contribute to the huge gaps in health, life ...[text shortened]... nd imprisonment rates today."
https://www.amnesty.org.au/how-it-works/what-are-indigenous-rights/
Our town of 10,000 people 300km from Melbourne has a small well-equipped public hospital and two large aged-care facilities open to all. It also has a free medical clinic and a large aged-care facility open to indigenous people, that's the affirmative action part.
Aboriginal deaths in custody are an ongoing problem, as is housing - but that's a non-indigenous problem too.
@no1marauder saidThanks for this link, I stand corrected. Just as in America, this seems an ongoing problem.
Amnesty International doesn't present quite as rosy a picture of Australia as this thread does:
"Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia continue to face very different life outcomes than the non-Indigenous population. The ongoing dispossession and racism towards Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people contribute to the huge gaps in health, life ...[text shortened]... nd imprisonment rates today."
https://www.amnesty.org.au/how-it-works/what-are-indigenous-rights/
@Kewpie saidSo, to clarify, is your position that DEI-type policies (such as what you call affirmative action) should be the norm and those who complain about them are out of the mainstream? (And therefore should not be such an all-encompassing 'big deal'?)
We're still a long way from sorting out our relationships with indigenous people, but in my lifetime we've moved from obliteration to coexistence to affirmative action. For example, we struggle with the conflict between the cultural desire to live "on country" and the inability to supply city-level services to places where there are no doctors or schoolteachers and no inducem ...[text shortened]... l deaths in custody are an ongoing problem, as is housing - but that's a non-indigenous problem too.
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@Suzianne saidI think that's a fair summary of my personal views. Hate, contempt, aggression, these all belong in my no-go zone, but pity is what I feel for people who can't grow past them.
So, to clarify, is your position that DEI-type policies (such as what you call affirmative action) should be the norm and those who complain about them are out of the mainstream? (And therefore should not be such an all-encompassing 'big deal'?)