@vivify saidThe left whingers wore out the misnomer 'far right' the way they wore out the 'racist' card. Neither mean anything anymore.
Well. That's a bucket of really bad.
More people are awake to the exaggeration and the right people are in a panic that, with Milei and Wilders, their fairey tales are being exposed.
@no1marauder said
Is it really that much of a big deal? True, Wilders' party more than doubled its size in Parliament but it still has less than a quarter of the seats. It seems unlikely he'll be able to form a governing coalition much less one that would accept his more radical policies.
Or am I missing something?
Like Bolsonaro, Milei and Boris, Wilders has been called his region's version of Trump.
And just like Trump, no one expected someone with his incendiary rhetoric about immigrants and other Trump-like rants to ever stand a chance advancing in government. The issue is not so much what changes he'll immediately be able to make, it's that fact that he was elected in the first place.
Populist politicians like often prove quite influential.
24 Nov 23
@vivify saidBut he hasn't been elected to anything. Here's an explanation of how a government is formed in the Netherlands. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/23/dutch-election-will-the-far-right-pvv-geert-wilders-form-government@no1marauder said
Is it really that much of a big deal? True, Wilders' party more than doubled its size in Parliament but it still has less than a quarter of the seats. It seems unlikely he'll be able to form a governing coalition much less one that would accept his more radical policies.
Or am I missing something?
Like Bolsonaro, Milei and Boris, Wi ...[text shortened]... that he was elected in the first place.
Populist politicians like often prove quite influential.
The chance of Wilder becoming Prime Minister seems remote.
@no1marauder saidSo it's not like the U.K. where the leader of the largest party becomes PM? Interesting.
But he hasn't been elected to anything. Here's an explanation of how a government is formed in the Netherlands. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/23/dutch-election-will-the-far-right-pvv-geert-wilders-form-government
The chance of Wilder becoming Prime Minister seems remote.
Still, Wilders is the face of a party that represents far right interests. That they could win the most seats is still a cause for concern.
@vivify saidThere are 150 seats in the Dutch parliament. To form an effective government, you need 75 seats. Wilders has 37 (which is quite a lot), but to govern he will need to form a coalition.
So it's not like the U.K. where the chosen party leader becomes PM? Interesting.
Still, Wilders is the face of a party that represents far right interests. That they could win the most seats is still a cause for concern.
He’ll need af least one of the large parties, to do so. But his Islamophobia (which he toned down this election, but it’s still in their programme) and his anti-EU rhetoric doesn’t make working with him very popular.
Basically, to form a government, he will need to make consessions. Like any government in the Netherlands. Which generally speaking is a positive thing, it keeps the far left and the far right a little to the middle.
Edit:
By the way, where did my Dutch election thread disappear to??
@wajoma saidMoron.
The left whingers wore out the misnomer 'far right' the way they wore out the 'racist' card. Neither mean anything anymore.
More people are awake to the exaggeration and the right people are in a panic that, with Milei and Wilders, their fairey tales are being exposed.
@shavixmir saidSo they'll have to do what the Lukid did in their most recent election. This dumb American became slightly less dumb.
There are 150 seats in the Durch parliament. To form an effective government, you need 75 seats. Wilders has 37 (which is quite a lot), but to govern he will need to form a coalition.
He’ll need af least one of the large parties, to do so. But his Islamophobia (which he toned down this election, but it’s still in their programme) and his anti-EU rhetoric doesn’t make wor ...[text shortened]... erally speaking is a positive thing, it keeps the far left and the far right a little to the middle.
You say his rhetoric doesn't make him very popular. We thought the same of Trump and his call to ban Muslims. His rise to power emboldened other right-wingers who were previously too afraid to admit their Islamaphobia. That could happen in the Netherlands.
@shavixmir saidIt was deleted because your OP had a modified version of the "F" word.
By the way, where did my Dutch election thread disappear to??
It used to be that only that first post would be deleted but I guess they returned to deleting the entire thread if the OP goes.
24 Nov 23
@vivify saidWhat I mean is his rhetoric doesn’t make him a popular choice for most other political leaders / parties.
So they'll have to do what the Lukid did in their most recent election. This dumb American became slightly less dumb.
You say his rhetoric doesn't make him very popular. We thought the same of Trump and his call to ban Muslims. His rise to power emboldened other right-wingers who were previously too afraid to admit their Islamaphobia. That could happen in the Netherlands.
For example: he wants to ban the koran. That’s illegal in the Netherlands (freedom of religion). Serious political parties don’t want to be connected to that.
So, he’s shelfed his anti-Islam rhetoric this election (it’s still in his manifest though) so that joining a government with him becomes less painful for the mainstream right-wing parties.
Among the population though, there is a very anti-migration thing going on.
Basically there is not enough social housing. And immigration is blamed for this, although the truth is that the previous governments just haven’t built enough housing. And that’s led to a lot of people voting for Wilders, Boudet and other extremist scoundrals.
However, I fully expect the VVD and that NSC party to join him in a coalition. And he will become prime-minister.
And when he fails to deliver, support for him will flop. Or, if he gets too extreme, the coalition will crumble and there will be new elections.
Of course, there is always the chance that some exteme measures will get through. But when stopping immigration doesn’t solve the housing problem, reality will set back in.
@shavixmir
As with Trump the pre-election poll results seem a good indication of what's not going to happen, a cynic might toy with the theory the polls are massaged in an attempt to sway election day results.
"Ministry of Sports and Tourism: Out, Ministry of Culture: Out, Ministry of Environment and Sustainable Development: Out, Ministry of Women, Genders and Diversity: Out"...
Javier Milei
24 Nov 23
@wajoma saidResearch seems to indicate that during polling a great many people don’t dare admit they’re going to vote for the PVV or FvD.
@shavixmir
As with Trump the pre-election poll results seem a good indication of what's not going to happen, a cynic might toy with the theory the polls are massaged in an attempt to sway election day results.
"Ministry of Sports and Tourism: Out, Ministry of Culture: Out, Ministry of Environment and Sustainable Development: Out, Ministry of Women, Genders and Diversity: Out"...
Javier Milei
And more than 75% of voters in this election were floating. So, the polls were never going to be of much use.
25 Nov 23
@wajoma saidA "libertarian" heaping praise on someone's who's party platform includes a policy to ban a certain religion's holy book, places of worship and schools? https://apnews.com/article/netherlands-election-wilders-coalition-c3caa2c87d7ce4d2e0cd7a1840f1f7c3
The left whingers wore out the misnomer 'far right' the way they wore out the 'racist' card. Neither mean anything anymore.
More people are awake to the exaggeration and the right people are in a panic that, with Milei and Wilders, their fairey tales are being exposed.
Is it an "exaggeration" to call such a position "far right"?
25 Nov 23
@shavixmir said"Dilan Yeşilgöz-Zegerius, the new leader of the People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy, or VVD, tweeted that after losing 10 seats in the election, the longtime ruling party would “make possible and constructively support a center-right Cabinet with good policies,” but wouldn’t join a government.
What I mean is his rhetoric doesn’t make him a popular choice for most other political leaders / parties.
For example: he wants to ban the koran. That’s illegal in the Netherlands (freedom of religion). Serious political parties don’t want to be connected to that.
So, he’s shelfed his anti-Islam rhetoric this election (it’s still in his manifest though) so that joining ...[text shortened]... through. But when stopping immigration doesn’t solve the housing problem, reality will set back in.
Wilders called the decision, which was announced before formal coalition talks had begun, “extremely disappointing.”"
https://apnews.com/article/netherlands-election-wilders-coalition-c3caa2c87d7ce4d2e0cd7a1840f1f7c3
I'm no expert on Netherlands politics, but I still don't think Wilders becomes PM. He'll either have to accept a VVD PM with his party getting Cabinet posts or they'll be new elections.
25 Nov 23
1 edit
@wajoma saidSorry to burst your conspiracy theory, but the polls said Milei was going to win:
@shavixmir
As with Trump the pre-election poll results seem a good indication of what's not going to happen, a cynic might toy with the theory the polls are massaged in an attempt to sway election day results.
"Ministry of Sports and Tourism: Out, Ministry of Culture: Out, Ministry of Environment and Sustainable Development: Out, Ministry of Women, Genders and Diversity: Out"...
Javier Milei
"Javier Milei was, until recently, a relative unknown. An economist, pundit and rock fan, he came top in recent primaries and polls now put him ahead in Sunday's first round."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67170266
In fact, the polls were wrong but in the opposite direction: "Massa, as one of the most prominent figures in a deeply unpopular administration, was once seen as having little chance of victory. But he managed to mobilize the networks of his Peronist party and clinched a decisive first-place finish in the first round of voting."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/argentines-vote-in-election-that-could-lead-trump-admiring-populist-to-presidency/ar-AA1kaRrf
The best polling company in South America showed Milei with a lead before the runoff though it wasn't as large as the actual totals: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-03/argentina-election-milei-holds-narrow-lead-over-massa-in-poll-ahead-of-runoff#xj4y7vzkg
Most other pollsters agreed: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-pollsters-read-tea-leaves-with-presidential-election-wide-open-2023-11-10/
The polls were accurate enough in the US to show Trump losing the popular vote in both 2016 and 2020.