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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    28 Jan '10 15:15
    Okay, since my wife won't drive in a snowstorm I had to drive the kiddies to school today. Of course, there are always a few morons out there who think it's unsafe to drive more than 5 MPH when it's snowing, so traffic slows to a crawl. So, I ended up being in the car for 90 minutes this morning between dropping off the kids and driving to work.

    So, as you can imagine, I kind of ran out of things to listen to on the radio. I'm not a big music person. Imus gets really old really fast. Since the Jets' elimination I don't have much use for sports radio and you listen to CBS for 20 minutes and you've heard about all they have to say...

    Now that Air America is bankrupt there are no more liberal talk shows on the air; not that I had any idea where on the dial Air America was anyway. (Air America is bankrupt; HA HA!)

    So I turned on Glenn Beck for a little while.

    He was comparing FDR, step by step, to Obama. FDR tried to neuter Congress; Obama said he circumvented Congress with an executive order last night. FDR went after the Supreme Court; Obama went after the Supreme Court last week. etc. etc.

    My question is: Did I miss something? When did FDR become a bogeyman? I know he was a Democrat and I know people are re-thinking whether certain parts of the New Deal were really good ideas? But is FDR some kind of supervillain now? Why is comparing Obama to FDR something that Glenn Beck believes will inspire hatred of Obama?
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    28 Jan '10 15:26
    Originally posted by sh76
    Okay, since my wife won't drive in a snowstorm I had to drive the kiddies to school today. Of course, there are always a few morons out there who think it's unsafe to drive more than 5 MPH when it's snowing, so traffic slows to a crawl. So, I ended up being in the car for 90 minutes this morning between dropping off the kids and driving to work.

    So, as you c ...[text shortened]... s comparing Obama to FDR something that Glenn Beck believes will inspire hatred of Obama?
    Are you daft? The entire Republican agenda for the last 30 years has been to undo the New Deal.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    28 Jan '10 15:31
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Are you daft? The entire Republican agenda for the last 30 years has been to undo the New Deal.
    What are you talking about?

    Does the current GOP platform call for the elimination of social security? No.

    For the elimination of the minimum wage? No.

    For the elimination of workplace safety rules? No.

    The elimination of labor unions? No.

    Of securities rules? The SEC Acts? No.

    Please, by all means, explain to me what you mean that "the entire Republican agenda for the last 30 years has been to undo the New Deal."

    This ought to be interesting.
  4. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    28 Jan '10 15:32
    Originally posted by sh76
    Okay, since my wife won't drive in a snowstorm I had to drive the kiddies to school today. Of course, there are always a few morons out there who think it's unsafe to drive more than 5 MPH when it's snowing, so traffic slows to a crawl. So, I ended up being in the car for 90 minutes this morning between dropping off the kids and driving to work.

    So, as you c ...[text shortened]... s comparing Obama to FDR something that Glenn Beck believes will inspire hatred of Obama?
    It's not true that there are no more liberal talk shows on the air. There are many that are not on Air America. Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, etc. have not been affected by Air America's demise.
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    28 Jan '10 15:40
    Originally posted by sh76
    What are you talking about?

    Does the current GOP platform call for the elimination of social security? No.

    For the elimination of the minimum wage? No.

    For the elimination of workplace safety rules? No.

    The elimination of labor unions? No.

    Of securities rules? The SEC Acts? No.

    Please, by all means, explain to me what you mean that "the entire ...[text shortened]... agenda for the last 30 years has been to undo the New Deal."

    This ought to be interesting.
    The Republican Party would gladly do all those things if they thought they could get away with them. They wanted to "privatize" social security, which was their backhanded way of eliminating it. They've opposed every minimum wage increase. They've tried to emasculate workplace safety rules to the best of their ability. They've virtually succeeded in destroying the unions. I don't know about the security rules. It's been a non-stop assault on the New Deal from the day Reagan took office.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    28 Jan '10 15:47 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The Republican Party would gladly do all those things if they thought they could get away with them. They wanted to "privatize" social security, which was their backhanded way of eliminating it. They've opposed every minimum wage increase. They've tried to emasculate workplace safety rules to the best of their ability. They've virtually succeeded in destroy rity rules. It's been a non-stop assault on the New Deal from the day Reagan took office.
    You're falling into the same trap the far right does when they talk about Obama. "If he could get away with it, he'd turn us into a Communist blah blah blah."

    I judge politicians by what they say and do, not by what you can speculate they think.

    You're also confusing efforts to limit some New Deal programs with efforts to undo them. If you call for lighter prison sentences are you waging an assault on the criminal justice system?

    Privatizing social security is not the same as eliminating it. Privatizing some elements of it would, on the whole, mean that the median person would receive MORE Social Security money, not less.

    Edit: FDR, in his wildest dreams, never would have imagined the size of the government as it exists today and things like federal bank bailouts and trillion dollar stimulus packages.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    28 Jan '10 15:48
    Originally posted by rwingett
    It's not true that there are no more liberal talk shows on the air. There are many that are not on Air America. Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, etc. have not been affected by Air America's demise.
    I was being facetious. Although, I don't know what stations those shows air on in the mornings in NY, if they do.
  8. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    28 Jan '10 15:52
    Originally posted by sh76
    You're falling into the same trap the far right doesn't when they talk about Obama. "If he could get away with it, he'd turn us into a Communist blah blah blah."

    I judge politicians by what they say and do, not by what you can speculate they think.

    You're also confusing efforts to limit some New Deal programs with efforts to undo them. If you call for lig ...[text shortened]... the whole, mean that the median person would receive MORE Social Security money, not less.
    You can live in your own Republican fantasy world if you want, but I ain't buyin' it.
  9. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    28 Jan '10 16:28
    Originally posted by sh76
    My question is: Did I miss something? When did FDR become a bogeyman? I know he was a Democrat and I know people are re-thinking whether certain parts of the New Deal were really good ideas? But is FDR some kind of supervillain now? Why is comparing Obama to FDR something that Glenn Beck believes will inspire hatred of Obama?
    FDR's not the bogeyman. Statism/progressivism is the bogeyman. FDR was the old poster boy for that type of thinking, and Obama is the new one.

    And I don't think Beck's aim is to inspire hatred of Obama, but rather to make people vigilant about the dangers of his ideology.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    28 Jan '10 16:42
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    And I don't think Beck's aim is to inspire hatred of Obama, but rather to make people vigilant about the dangers of his ideology.
    True.

    Poor phraseology by me.
  11. 28 Jan '10 16:55
    Originally posted by sh76
    Okay, since my wife won't drive in a snowstorm I had to drive the kiddies to school today. Of course, there are always a few morons out there who think it's unsafe to drive more than 5 MPH when it's snowing, so traffic slows to a crawl. So, I ended up being in the car for 90 minutes this morning between dropping off the kids and driving to work.

    So, as you c ...[text shortened]... s comparing Obama to FDR something that Glenn Beck believes will inspire hatred of Obama?
    FDR is the supervillain who created Big Gummint. But if we all heed Mr. Beck's prophetic words, a Superman will arise from the ashes of our declining civilization and finally slay the Big Gummint beast and usher in a millenium of Glory. In the meantime, G. Gordon Liddy has some gold he wants to sell you.

    disclaimer: Any relationship between Big Gummint and the actual government is purely coincidental.
  12. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    28 Jan '10 17:02
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    FDR is the supervillain who created Big Gummint. But if we all heed Mr. Beck's prophetic words, a Superman will arise from the ashes of our declining civilization and finally slay the Big Gummint beast and usher in a millenium of Glory. In the meantime, G. Gordon Liddy has some gold he wants to sell you.

    disclaimer: Any relationship between Big Gummint and the actual government is purely coincidental.
    A superman? I must have missed that. I think Beck's message has been that the American people will have to take on statism.
  13. 28 Jan '10 17:14
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    A superman? I must have missed that. I think Beck's message has been that the American people will have to take on statism.
    I think Beck's message is that doom is a-coming, and we might as well buy some gold since it's a good investment.
  14. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    28 Jan '10 17:26
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    I think Beck's message is that doom is a-coming, and we might as well buy some gold since it's a good investment.
    No I don't think so. I think he's trying to empower people to stand up to statism and corruption in our political system. If the tea parties, town halls, and recent elections are any indication he's been pretty successful.

    Beck's style really bugs me, but there's a lot more there than just gloom and doom. Overall, he's delivering an an empowering message and he's having a big impact.
  15. 28 Jan '10 17:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    A superman? I must have missed that. I think Beck's message has been that the American people will have to take on statism.
    But the American people's effort to dismantle the state will peter out at the moment the first "death panel" is created to decide which ones are the first to have their Medicare benefits cut.

    A conundrum.