Debates
29 Nov 11
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29 Nov 11
Originally posted by finneganAnd I thought it was about a group of people dedicated to the preservation and creation of garden ponds.....
A certified first responder is a person who has completed a course and received certification in providing pre-hospital care for medical emergencies.
Without Wikipedia I could never make sense of some posts!
29 Nov 11
Originally posted by skipper2666Among first responders are police, fire, and emergency medical techs. Generally, they are good folks who do their jobs well. I would not call them "selfless". First in my opinion, that makes them idiots. They are after all pretty well paid. Brave, yes. Not many of us run into burning houses, or respond to auto crashes in dangerous locations.
OK lets try this then ---
The plight of The First Responders? Any views / comments on some of the most selfless and brave Americans.
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30 Nov 11
Originally posted by normbenignI know for a fact that my local police and firemen make less than me and I sure as heck don't run into burning buildings or dodge drunks on the freeway so either they are underpaid or norm doesn't give a belly of upchuck about them. Which is it?
Among first responders are police, fire, and emergency medical techs. Generally, they are good folks who do their jobs well. I would not call them "selfless". First in my opinion, that makes them idiots. They are after all pretty well paid. Brave, yes. Not many of us run into burning houses, or respond to auto crashes in dangerous locations.
30 Nov 11
Originally posted by TerrierJackWe are generally not paid based on how risky our jobs are - nor on how important they are. Teaching for example is probably one of the most important jobs in society, but is not very well paid. Its about supply and demand and nothing else. One of the down sides of capitalism.
I know for a fact that my local police and firemen make less than me and I sure as heck don't run into burning buildings or dodge drunks on the freeway so either they are underpaid or norm doesn't give a belly of upchuck about them. Which is it?
30 Nov 11
Originally posted by skipper2666I assume by "first responder" you are talking about police, fire department, EMT's, etc.
Good point.
Lets take one example --- The plight of The First Responders who bravely worked after the 9/11 incident.
Thoughts on this please.
When a first responder responds to a scene, they are doing what they are trained to do, so I'm not seeing the "plight". I'm sure some scenes are more traumatic than others, so it can be unsettling for anyone, but I would expect the "first responder" to be much more well-equipped mentally and physically to deal with it, no matter how bad it is.
30 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by googlefudgeI don't really have the words but these examples of thousands of cases and reports do
What plight?
Use more words, make meaning clear, try again.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/02/news/economy/911_health_insurance/index.htm
http://toxic911.blogspot.com/2010/11/986th-first-responder-dies-from-911.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/09/the_911_first_responders_still.html
01 Dec 11
Originally posted by TerrierJackWhen Adam Smith wrote "Wealth of Nations" he observed that men ran to recruiters when a nation was on the verge of going to war, and the pay was poor, and chances of not being killed small.
I know for a fact that my local police and firemen make less than me and I sure as heck don't run into burning buildings or dodge drunks on the freeway so either they are underpaid or norm doesn't give a belly of upchuck about them. Which is it?
I have no idea of your income, and it doesn't matter, except that your employer apparently believes you are worth the money.
I think first responders are generally well paid. Does that mean I don't care about them? I don't have the power to dictate salaries, and would not want that power. For public employees, that power is with the elected officials, and for approval with the voters.
From observing local elections for a half century, all politicians promise not to cut cops and firemen, as well as teachers. Most when faced with reality renege on their promises.
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01 Dec 11
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo lots of people want to be police and/or firemen? Who knew there was such market pressure to bring their wages down. Of course, that's completely contrary to good sense so that's your point? (They are underpaid.)
We are generally not paid based on how risky our jobs are - nor on how important they are. Teaching for example is probably one of the most important jobs in society, but is not very well paid. Its about supply and demand and nothing else. One of the down sides of capitalism.
01 Dec 11
Originally posted by TerrierJackEven in the worst urban ghettos, police academies are fully enrolled, and on hiring announcements there are hordes who show up for testing.
So lots of people want to be police and/or firemen? Who knew there was such market pressure to bring their wages down. Of course, that's completely contrary to good sense so that's your point? (They are underpaid.)
This would not be the case if they were under paid. Compensation is more than hourly, or weekly pay. There aren't too many jobs from which you can retire after 20 years of service with a full pension regardless of age. Where to qualify, you've got to be a buff, athletic person, yet you can be a fat donut eating slob and never be dismissed.
01 Dec 11
Originally posted by TerrierJackApparently, yes.
So lots of people want to be police and/or firemen?
It may not be because the job itself is desirable, but that the skill set required is low. That is certainly the case where I come from - most police have a fairly low education level. If the minimum education levels are pushed up, the government finds it needs to pay more to get recruits.
Who knew there was such market pressure to bring their wages down.
Most people, surely?
Of course, that's completely contrary to good sense so that's your point? (They are underpaid.)
Why is it contrary to good sense?
My point is that capitalism in general is unfair. We are not paid by how hard we work, or by how good we are, or by how much risk we take. We are paid based on how many people are competing for our jobs, and how many jobs are available. The only counter attack is unions (which have been very successful in some countries).
The side effect of Unions however is that people get paid more, are made to work harder and smarter, and there are fewer jobs.
The real problem that I haven't mentioned above, is that management usually gets to bypass all the above and set their own wages.