Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 12 Aug '14 01:52 / 4 edits
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/gaza-israel-movement-that-dare-not-speak-its-name

    "Against the war: the movement that dare not speak its name in Israel"
    --Giles Fraser (6 August 2014)

    Gideon Levy, an Israeli Jewish writer for 'Haaretz' (an Israeli newspaper)
    has long been urging Israeli Jews to have more empathy for the Palestinians.
    Consequently, he has been so frequently insulted, harassed, and threatened
    that he must be accompanied by bodyguards when he goes out in public.
    A major Israeli politician (who supports Prime Minster Netanyahu) has
    called for Gideon Levy to put on trial for treason against the state of Israel.

    "(Israeli Jews have) Zero tolerance of any kind of criticism, opposition to
    any kind of sympathy with the Palestinians. You shouldn't be surprised that
    the 95% (of Israeli Jews support Israel's war against Gaza); you should be
    surprised at the 5% (of Israeli Jews who don't support Israel's war).
    This is almost a miracle (that even as many as 5% of Israeli Jews don't
    support Israel's government in wartime). The media has an enormous role.
    *Given the decades of demonization of the Palestinians, the incitement and the
    hatred (of Palestinians), don't be surprised the Israeli people are where they are.*"
    --Gideon Levy

    "Most (Israeli) newspapers and TV channels are simply cheerleaders for
    the government, offering a constant diet of fear and fallen heroes, with
    little evidence of any of the atrocities going in Gaza. The problem is,
    ordinary Israelis have little idea what has been going on. ... The young
    people (Israeli Jews) are the worst. More ignorant. More brainwashed.
    They never met a Palestinian in their lives."
    --Gideon Levy

    Gideon Levy, an Israeli Jewish writer for 'Haaretz' (an Israeli newspaper)
    has written _The Punishment of Gaza_ (2010).
    Here's a review of the book by Nicholas Lezard for 'The Guardian':
    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jul/03/punishment-gaza-gideon-levy-lezard
  2. 12 Aug '14 01:56
    Let the Peace Activists be willing allow Hamas to blow them up with rockets. After they are dead, then I will listen to what they have to say.
  3. 12 Aug '14 02:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Let the Peace Activists be willing allow Hamas to blow them up with rockets.
    After they are dead, then I will listen to what they have to say.
    In fact, Gideon Levy, an Israeli Jew, has bodyguards to protect himself from the
    'terrorism' (including death threats) of other Israeli Jews, not the Palestinians.
    Evidently, there are more than a few right-wing Israeli Jews who would like
    to kill Gideon Levy or at least approve of his murder *before* any Palestinian
    might have an opportunity to kill him. Actually, if a Palestinian fighter
    recognized Gideon Levy and knew of his reputation in seeking peaceful
    reconciliation with the Palestinians, then I expect that the Palestinian fighter
    would be strongly disinclined to attempt to harm him in any way.
  4. 12 Aug '14 02:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    In fact, Gideon Levy, an Israeli Jew, has bodyguards to protect himself from the
    'terrorism' (including death threats) of other Israeli Jews, not the Palestinians.
    Evidently, there are more than a few right-wing Israeli Jews who would like
    to kill Gideon Levy or at least approve of his murder *before* any Palestinian
    might have an opportunity to kill h ...[text shortened]... t that the Palestinian fighter
    would be strongly disinclined to attempt to harm him in any way.
    When did I say he wasn't a Jew.

    I find it funny that a peace activist would hire people with guns. I guess weapons are ok if your life is directly threatened, but it isn't if it is just another person's.
  5. 12 Aug '14 02:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    When did I say he wasn't a Jew.

    I find it funny that a peace activist would hire people with guns.
    I guess weapons are ok if your life is directly threatened, but it isn't if it is just another person's.
    Evidently, Gideon Levy's life has been directly threatened by right-wing
    Israeli Jews like those whom Eladar admires and supports so much politically.
    (I don't know if Gideon Levy or his employer hired his bodyguards.)

    I suspect that if Gideon Levy were to write here, then Eladar and other
    fanatical supporters of Israel would either ignore him or insult him.
  6. 12 Aug '14 03:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/gaza-israel-movement-that-dare-not-speak-its-name

    "Against the war: the movement that dare not speak its name in Israel"
    --Giles Fraser (6 August 2014)

    Gideon Levy, an Israeli Jewish writer for 'Haaretz' (an Israeli newspaper)
    has long been urging Israeli Jews to have more empathy for the Palestinians. ...[text shortened]... 'The Guardian':
    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jul/03/punishment-gaza-gideon-levy-lezard
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/to-the-weekend-protesters_b_5666015.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    There is much suffering and much to blame everywhere but the indignation is disproportionately directed at Israel.
  7. 12 Aug '14 09:11
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Let the Peace Activists be willing allow Hamas to blow them up with rockets. After they are dead, then I will listen to what they have to say.
    he isn't supporting hamas, nobody is. he is calling into attention the palestinian people who suffer.


    or do you confuse the two?
  8. 12 Aug '14 15:16
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    he isn't supporting hamas, nobody is. he is calling into attention the palestinian people who suffer.


    or do you confuse the two?
    The Palestinian people are suffering because of Hamas. It is you who is confusing the issue. If Hamas doesn't attack, then Israel would not attack.

    It is as simple as that. Of course this is nothing you haven't already read, which means you simply choose to ignore reality and hold to your dogma. There's nothing new there.
  9. 12 Aug '14 15:23 / 1 edit
    http://huff.to/1A5b4gl

    The anti Israel sentiment that seems to be taking off smells like the antisemitism of yesteryear which apparently was buried but not destroyed. Please take a moment to read this brief article.
  10. 12 Aug '14 18:16
    Originally posted by Phranny
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/to-the-weekend-protesters_b_5666015.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    There is much suffering and much to blame everywhere but the indignation is disproportionately directed at Israel.
    If Israel has been receiving (outside the extremely pro-Israeli US media)
    more criticism than Hamas, it's largely on account of the fact that Israel
    has killed a far greater number of civilians than Hamas had done. In fact,
    almost all of the Israelis killed by Hamas have been IDF soldiers in battle.

    When Israel uses violence disproportionately, it may receive what some
    of its supporters (e.g. Phranny) believe is 'disproportionate indignation'.
  11. 12 Aug '14 18:46
    Originally posted by Phranny
    http://huff.to/1A5b4gl

    The anti Israel sentiment that seems to be taking off smells like the antisemitism of yesteryear which apparently was buried but not destroyed. Please take a moment to read this brief article.
    First of all, I would again remind the supporters of Israel that many Jews
    (including some, like Gideon Levy, in Israel) have expressed various criticisms
    of what Israel has done against the Palestinians. I also would add that
    some Jews support the BDS (Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions) campaign
    against Israel. (If anyone would like to dispute this fact and be willing to
    bet a large sum of money, I am ready to accept the challenge and intend
    to donate the proceeds to a charity to help the Palestinians.) My point
    is that no criticism of Israel should be considered intrinsically anti-Jewish
    when some principled thoughtful Jews have made such criticisms themselves.
    I could build a strong case in criticizing Israel by quoting only Jewish writers.

    Sadly, anti-Jewish bigotry exists. It existed long before the Israeli-Palestinian
    conflict. It existed in Christian Europe long before the Nazis. I suspect that
    some incidents of anti-Jewish bigotry are the work of neo-Nazis (or other
    racists) who are exploiting the current conflict in Gaza as political cover.
    The Palestinians or their supporters did not cause the existence of anti-Jewish bigotry.

    Has opposition to Israel *occasionally* spilled over into anti-Jewish sentiment?
    Sadly, yes, though most leading critics (whether Jewish or non-Jewish) of
    Israel have condemned any perceived expressions of anti-Jewish prejudice
    among other critics of Israel. The critics of Israel include many diverse people,
    and some of them have just become aware of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
    and they lack the sophistication *not* to conflate the state of Israel with
    the entire Jewish people.

    I would point out that it's extremely dishonest and hypocritical for supporters
    of Israel to pretend as though only the critics of Israel conflate Israel
    with the entire Jewish people. In fact, the government of Israel and Zionism
    itself routinely conflate the state of Israel with the entire Jewish people.
    Israel prefers to define itself as 'the Jewish state' (rather than a nation of
    its own citizens) and has demanded that the Palestinians recognise it as
    'the Jewish state'. Supporters of Israel should *not* complain that the
    actions of the self-identified 'Jewish state' may be sometimes perceived
    and criticised as 'Jewish actions'. I don't recall the government of Israel
    liking to point out that some Jews are non-Zionist, many Jews have criticised
    Israel's policies toward the Palestinians in one way or another, and some Jews
    have *emigrated* from Israel, preferring not to live in the Zionist paradise.

    But Phranny seems determined to believe that criticism (including by Jews)
    of Israel must be a subset of hatred of the Jewish people, which may make
    it easier for her to rationalize Israel's oppression of the Palestinians.
  12. 12 Aug '14 18:48
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi to Eladar
    he isn't supporting hamas, nobody is. he is calling into attention the palestinian people who suffer.

    or do you confuse the two?
    Gideon Levy's bodyguards are there to protect him from violent attacks
    by other Israeli Jews (who have threatened him), not by Hamas.

    Eladar normally seems confused, though apparently always unaware of it.
  13. 12 Aug '14 18:54
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Gideon Levy's bodyguards are there to protect him from violent attacks
    by other Israeli Jews (who have threatened him), not by Hamas.

    Eladar normally seems confused, though apparently always unaware of it.
    Hey moron, is he using guns to defend himself?
  14. 12 Aug '14 18:56
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Hey moron, is he using guns to defend himself?
    While Gideon Levy has not publicized (for obvious reasons) the details of his
    personal security arrangements, I assume that his bodyguards have guns.
  15. 12 Aug '14 18:58
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    While Gideon Levy has not publicized (for obvious reasons) the details of his
    personal security arrangements, I assume that his bodyguards have guns.
    So how is he not using guns to defend himself?