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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    10 Dec '13 17:01 / 1 edit
    Too all those out there who think raising the minimum wage is a bad idea, consider this. While the minimum wage has slowly climbed in the last few decades (amid the whailings of multi billion dollar companies who claim they can't afford it) executive pay, even for medium sized business's has gone up much faster. This begs a few questions:

    1. Are these executives really worth all these millions of dollars a year?

    2. Why can companies outside the United States manage to be very successful and pay their executives far less than their American counterparts?

    3. Why is it when a company is doing poorly, is it those who can least afford it that are asked to accept cuts in pay and benefits?

    4. How can companies in the US claim they cannot afford to raise the minimum wage, yet offer their executives such massive pay packages?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-starbucks-ceos-more-9-110100507.html

    http://www.faireconomy.org/news/ceo_pay_charts

    http://www.verisi.com/resources/us-ceo-compensation.htm
  2. 10 Dec '13 17:21
    Originally posted by bill718
    Too all those out there who think raising the minimum wage is a bad idea, consider this. While the minimum wage has slowly climbed in the last few decades (amid the whailings of multi billion dollar companies who claim they can't afford it) executive pay, even for medium sized business's has gone up much faster. This begs a few questions:

    1. Are these exe ...[text shortened]... w.faireconomy.org/news/ceo_pay_charts

    http://www.verisi.com/resources/us-ceo-compensation.htm
    If starting and running a company is so easy, and so profitable, why don't those begging for a minimum wage increase start their own company?

    In no time they can roll out an IPO, and be among the wealthy.
  3. 10 Dec '13 17:24
    Originally posted by normbenign
    If starting and running a company is so easy, and so profitable, why don't those begging for a minimum wage increase start their own company?

    In no time they can roll out an IPO, and be among the wealthy.
    It takes money to make money.

    Take the financial backing and connections away from the rich kids and even the field.

    I like that idea better. Make everyone pull themselves up from their boot straps.
  4. 10 Dec '13 18:00
    Originally posted by Eladar
    It takes money to make money.

    Take the financial backing and connections away from the rich kids and even the field.

    I like that idea better. Make everyone pull themselves up from their boot straps.
    There are venture capitalists who are actively searching for folks with good ideas and no money.

    The implication that lazy, stupid, unqualified people ought to get more money than they are paid by their employers voluntarily is insulting. If they were worth more, they would get raises. If not, they ought to stop whining and do the job better outside the employee definition.
  5. 10 Dec '13 18:21
    Originally posted by normbenign
    There are venture capitalists who are actively searching for folks with good ideas and no money.

    The implication that lazy, stupid, unqualified people ought to get more money than they are paid by their employers voluntarily is insulting. If they were worth more, they would get raises. If not, they ought to stop whining and do the job better outside the employee definition.
    I was just commenting on the fact that some people have an easier time in life due to their family money and connections.

    Make everyone depend on venture capitalists.
  6. 10 Dec '13 18:24
    Originally posted by bill718
    2. Why can companies outside the United States manage to be very successful and pay their executives far less than their American counterparts?
    This is the really interesting question. Surely the logic of the market would dictate that competition from, say, Chinese executives willing to work for less would drive down the pay of US executives. Why doesn't it work like that?
  7. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    10 Dec '13 18:25
    Originally posted by normbenign
    If starting and running a company is so easy, and so profitable, why don't those begging for a minimum wage increase start their own company?

    In no time they can roll out an IPO, and be among the wealthy.
    Earth to Norm: I've run my own business for 20+ years. I only have 3 employees, but can manage to pay my folks $17.50 an hour. What's the problem with McDonalds??
  8. 10 Dec '13 18:27
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I was just commenting on the fact that some people have an easier time in life due to their family money and connections.

    Make everyone depend on venture capitalists.
    Some people have an easier time. That just means what we've always known is still true, there isn't any such thing as fair.

    People are born with differing gifts, including ambition and drive. Parents often can't control that. How many sports superstars come from broken homes, single parents, etc. but can run fast or make jump shots, or for that matter do brain surgery.
  9. 10 Dec '13 18:32
    Originally posted by bill718
    Earth to Norm: I've run my own business for 20+ years. I only have 3 employees, but can manage to pay my folks $17.50 an hour. What's the problem with McDonalds??
    Bill, your business isn't selling sandwiches to people at bargain prices. My golfing buddy pays better than you do, but his business is a dental office and everyone there has education and skills not found in any MacDonalds.

    My question to you is, why aren't you paying $30 per hour? That would be a lot better than your paltry $17.50 wouldn't it? Why not expand, and go recruiting at Mickey Ds? Raise those people out of poverty.
  10. 10 Dec '13 18:38
    Originally posted by bill718
    Too all those out there who think raising the minimum wage is a bad idea, consider this. While the minimum wage has slowly climbed in the last few decades (amid the whailings of multi billion dollar companies who claim they can't afford it) executive pay, even for medium sized business's has gone up much faster. This begs a few questions:

    1. Are these exe ...[text shortened]... w.faireconomy.org/news/ceo_pay_charts

    http://www.verisi.com/resources/us-ceo-compensation.htm
    1. No.

    2. Because there is no relation between pay of CEOs and their performance.
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/02/focus-0

    3. Because those people have the least power, esp. in the US where unions are very weak.

    4. Because they assume people are gullible enough to believe that, and looking around on these forums, at least some people appear to be that gullible.

    Raising the minimum wage is a possible method for reducing income inequality, but not the best way. Making companies repsonsible for social security rarely gives good results - just look at the debacle of corporate-provided health care and pensions in the US.
  11. 10 Dec '13 18:38
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    This is the really interesting question. Surely the logic of the market would dictate that competition from, say, Chinese executives willing to work for less would drive down the pay of US executives. Why doesn't it work like that?
    That is somewhat interesting, except that there are some roadblocks inhibiting full mobility of executives from other nations. A great many foreign business students, many of the Asians go into CPA programs, seeking those corporate heights.

    It is my impression that many younger, more innovative companies do search for executive and management people outside of the brotherhood. The only ones we regularly hear of are the multinationals, and they seem to fall into self fulfilling acts which limit their success.

    The market sorts out these failing strategies, if government doesn't bail them out.
  12. 10 Dec '13 18:40
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    This is the really interesting question. Surely the logic of the market would dictate that competition from, say, Chinese executives willing to work for less would drive down the pay of US executives. Why doesn't it work like that?
    Surely you already know the answer to that question? CEOs of major corporations appoint each other and determine each other's pay.
  13. 10 Dec '13 18:54
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Surely you already know the answer to that question? CEOs of major corporations appoint each other and determine each other's pay.
    As I pointed out, the brotherhood seems more imbedded in large multinationals than in startups.

    A board that hires a newbie, with no track record, is taking a huge gamble.
  14. 10 Dec '13 20:47
    Can we try getting rid of Social Security first before increasing the minimum wage?
  15. 10 Dec '13 20:56
    Originally posted by MoneyManMike
    Can we try getting rid of Social Security first before increasing the minimum wage?
    What does one have to do with the other?