The Oath of Hippocrates
I SWEAR by Apollo the physician and Æsculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation—to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this Art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons labouring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further, from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice, or not in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the Art, respected by all men, in all times. But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot. 1
Many advocates of abortion and euthanasia argue that being against them is a consequence of illogical thinking being produced by the religious Christian beliefs the opponents hold. Reading the Oath of Hippocrates, " ..... I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. ....... " , I begin to wonder why the advocates always call upon the Ancient Greek civilisation as authoritive in this field ... or is it the advocates of the Culture of Death are just selectively shopping in those philosophical Greek schools where they can find an affirmation of their views.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeIn many fields we take the ancient Greek knowledge as a basis. Sometimes we use the ancient Arabic wisdom as well, (but that's another thread).
Many advocates of abortion and euthanasia argue that being against them is a consequence of illogical thinking being produced by the religious Christian beliefs the opponents hold. Reading the Oath of Hippocrates, " ..... I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessar ...[text shortened]... ing in those philosophical Greek schools where they can find an affirmation of their views.
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Its perfectly reasonable to be selective about this - it was 2,000-odd years ago - hopefully we can accept that the ancient Greeks were wrong about some things.
In Physics, Maths, Philosophy or whatever, we're always selective about what bits of ancient knowledge we accept and what we reject. That's the result of human progress in the meantime.
Originally posted by ivanhoeWhat about it? Do you think doctors should swear the same oath over the centuries, despite any changes in knowledge or society's beliefs?
Now what about the Oath of Hippocrates ?
Just as science and philosphy have changed, so has medicine.
What you're quoting above is the 'Classical' oath - ie in its original form. Most doctors use a modern form. Its perfectly reasonable this should have changed with the centuries.
Originally posted by Redmike
What about it? Do you think doctors should swear the same oath over the centuries, despite any changes in knowledge or society's beliefs?
Just as science and philosphy have changed, so has medicine.
What you're quoting above is the 'Classical' oath - ie in its original form. Most doctors use a modern form. Its perfectly reasonable this should have changed with the centuries.
Do you know the modern form ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeThe Hippocratic Oath
Do you know the modern form ?
(Modern Version)
I swear in the presence of the Almighty and before my family, my teachers and my peers that according to my ability and judgment I will keep this Oath and Stipulation.
To reckon all who have taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents and in the same spirit and dedication to impart a knowledge of the art of medicine to others. I will continue with diligence to keep abreast of advances in medicine. I will treat without exception all who seek my ministrations, so long as the treatment of others is not compromised thereby, and I will seek the counsel of particularly skilled physicians where indicated for the benefit of my patient.
I will follow that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous. I will neither prescribe nor administer a lethal dose of medicine to any patient even if asked nor counsel any such thing nor perform the utmost respect for every human life from fertilization to natural death and reject abortion that deliberately takes a unique human life.
With purity, holiness and beneficence I will pass my life and practice my art. Except for the prudent correction of an imminent danger, I will neither treat any patient nor carry out any research on any human being without the valid informed consent of the subject or the appropriate legal protector thereof, understanding that research must have as its purpose the furtherance of the health of that individual. Into whatever patient setting I enter, I will go for the benefit of the sick and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief or corruption and further from the seduction of any patient.
Whatever in connection with my professional practice or not in connection with it I may see or hear in the lives of my patients which ought not be spoken abroad, I will not divulge, reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art and science of medicine with the blessing of the Almighty and respected by my peers and society, but should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse by my lot.
This still is the Hippocratic oath.
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Another Modern Oath
Another version, approved by the American Medical Association, is as follows:
You do solemnly swear, each by whatever he or she holds most sacred: That you will be loyal to the Profession of Medicine and just and generous to its members. That you will lead your lives and practice your art in uprightness and honor.
That into whatsoever house you shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick to the utmost of your power, your holding yourselves far aloof from wrong, from corruption, from the tempting of others to vice.
That you will exercise your art solely for the cure of your patients, and will give no drug, perform no operation, for a criminal purpose, even if solicited, far less suggest it.
That whatsoever you shall see or hear of the lives of men or women which is not fitting to be spoken, you will keep inviolably secret.
These things do you swear. Let each bow the head in sign of acquiescence. And now, if you will be true to this, your oath, may prosperity and good repute be ever yours; the opposite, if you shall prove yourselves forsworn.
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This is a very stretchy version. I don't consider this an Oath in the spirit of Hippocrates. However I still like where it says: " ..... That you will exercise your art solely for the cure of your patients ... "
I absolutely don't like (the formulation of) this part: "You do solemnly swear, each by whatever he or she holds most sacred: That you will be loyal to the Profession of Medicine and just and generous to its members. "
The latter part is very very stretchy and can even be used against the patients interests.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeI think there's a few modern versions of the Oath. Most don't mention abortion - you've just found one that does, but I can post many that don't.
The Hippocratic Oath
(Modern Version)
I swear in the presence of the Almighty and before my family, my teachers and my peers that according to my ability and judgment I will keep this Oath and Stipulation.
To reckon all who have taught me this art equally dear to me as my parents and in the same spirit and dedication to impart a knowledge of the art o ...[text shortened]... nd violate this Oath, may the reverse by my lot.
This still is the Hippocratic oath.
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What's your point?
Society has changed, so has the Oath.
Originally posted by RedmikeMy point is that apparently the choice between lets say the Culture of Life and the Culture of Death is not a modern problem and certainly not a choice produced by the aberration of the Christian faith and culture but it is a universal choice of all times.
I think there's a few modern versions of the Oath. Most don't mention abortion - you've just found one that does, but I can post many that don't.
What's your point?
Society has changed, so has the Oath.
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Originally posted by ivanhoeWait a minute - we've identified that the ancient Greek medics were opposed to abortion. We know that some people today are opposed to abortion. Hardly makes it a 'universal chice of all times' - there have been many cultures were abortian is freely accepted.
My point is that apparently the choice between lets say the Culture of Life and the Culture of Death is not a modern problem and certainly not an aberration of the Christian faith and culture but it is a universal choice of all times.
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Originally posted by RedmikeRedmike: ".... we've identified that the ancient Greek medics were opposed to abortion."
Wait a minute - we've identified that the ancient Greek medics were opposed to abortion. We know that some people today are opposed to abortion. Hardly makes it a 'universal chice of all times' - there have been many cultures were abortian is freely accepted.
Were they indeed all opposed to abortion and euthanasia during the period the Greek culture bloomed ?
Redmike: "... We know that SOME people today are opposed to abortion . "
C'mon, look around you !
Redmike: ".... there have been many cultures were abortian is freely accepted. ... "
Yes, and there have been cultures where it was forbidden.
So, my claim still stands, that the choice between the culture of death and the culture of life is beyond the contradictions and controverses of modern society.
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