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  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    23 Nov '12 03:55
    Ought to be fun to have the site's anti-Semitic wing try to rebut this...

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-why-was-there-war-in-gaza/2012/11/22/c77582e8-3412-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html

    Why was there war in Gaza?
    By Charles Krauthammer,  Published: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 7:53 PM ET
      Aa  
    Why was there an Israel-Gaza war in the first place? Resistance to the occupation, say Hamas and many in the international media.

    What occupation? Seven years ago, in front of the world, Israel pulled out of Gaza. It dismantled every settlement, withdrew every soldier, evacuated every Jew, leaving nothing and no one behind. Except for the greenhouses in which the settlers had grown fruit and flowers for export. These were left intact to help Gaza’s economy — only to be trashed when the Palestinians took over.

    Israel then declared its border with Gaza to be an international frontier, meaning that it renounced any claim to the territory and considered it an independent entity.

    In effect, Israel had created the first Palestinian state ever, something never granted by fellow Muslims — neither the Ottoman Turks nor the Egyptians who brutally occupied Gaza for two decades before being driven out by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War.

    Israel wanted nothing more than to live in peace with this independent Palestinian entity. After all, the world had incessantly demanded that Israel give up land for peace.

    It gave the land. It got no peace.

    The Gaza Palestinians did not reciprocate. They voted in Hamas, who then took over in a military putsch and turned the newly freed Palestine into an armed camp from which to war against Israel. It has been war ever since.

    Interrupted by the occasional truce, to be sure. But for Hamas a truce — hudna — is simply a tactic for building strength for the next round. It is never meant to be enduring, never meant to offer peace.

    But why, given that there is no occupation of Gaza anymore? Because Hamas considers all of Israel occupied, illegitimate, a cancer, a crime against humanity, to quote the leaders of Iran, Hamas’s chief patron and arms supplier. Hamas’s objective, openly declared, is to “liberate” — i.e., destroy — Tel Aviv and the rest of pre-1967 Israel. Indeed, it is Hamas’s raison d’etre.

    Hamas first killed Jews with campaigns of suicide bombings. After Israel built a nearly impenetrable fence, it went to rockets fired indiscriminately at civilians in populated areas.

    What did Hamas hope to gain from this latest round of fighting, which it started with a barrage of about 150 rockets into Israel? To formally translate Hamas’s recent strategic gains into a new, more favorable status quo with Israel. It works like this:

    Hamas’s new strength comes from two sources.

    First, its new rocketry, especially the Fajr-5, smuggled in from Iran, that can now reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, putting 50 percent of Israel’s population under its guns.

    Second, Hamas has gained strategic strength from changes in the regional environment. It has acquired the patronage and protection of important Middle Eastern states as a result of the Arab Spring and the Islamist reversal in Turkey.

    For 60 years, non-Arab Turkey had been a reliable ally of Israel. The vicious turnaround instituted by its Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, reached its apogee on Monday when he called Israel a terrorist state.

    Egypt is now run by Hamas’s own mother organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, of which Hamas is simply the Palestinian wing. And the emir of Qatar recently visited Gaza, leaving behind a promise of a cool $400 million.

    Hamas’s objective was to guarantee no further attacks on its leaders or on its weaponry, launch sites and other terror and rocket infrastructure. And the lifting of Israel’s military blockade, which would allow a flood of new and even more deadly weapons. In other words, immunity and inviolability during which time Hamas could build unmolested its arsenal of missiles — until it is ready to restart the war on more favorable terms.

    Yet another hudna, this one brokered and guaranteed by Egypt and Turkey, regional powers Israel has to be careful not to offend. A respite for rebuilding, until Hamas’s Gaza becomes Hezbollah South, counterpart to the terror group to Israel’s north, with 50,000 Iranian- and Syrian-supplied rockets that effectively deter any Israeli preemptive attack.

    With the declaration of a cease-fire Wednesday, Israel seems to have successfully resisted these demands, although there may be some cosmetic changes to the embargo. Which means that in any future fighting, Israel will retain the upper hand.

    Israel has once again succeeded in defending itself. But, yet again, only until the next round, which, as the night follows the day, will come. Hamas will see to that.

    letters@charleskrauthammer.com
  2. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    23 Nov '12 04:01 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Ought to be fun to have the site's anti-Semitic wing try to rebut this...

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-why-was-there-war-in-gaza/2012/11/22/c77582e8-3412-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html

    Why was there war in Gaza?
    By Charles Krauthammer,  Published: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 7:53 PM ET
      Aa  
    Why was there an Israel-Ga ...[text shortened]... the night follows the day, will come. Hamas will see to that.

    letters@charleskrauthammer.com
    WOW not one word on how it's President Obama's fault. lol I'm impressed. But I'm sure you'll tell us the (connect the dots puzzle) leading to our presidents fault Before long. Good luck with that. lol
  3. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    23 Nov '12 04:02
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    WOW not one word on how it's President Obama's fault. lol I'm impressed. But I'm sure you'll tell us the (conect the dots puzzle) Before long. Good luck with that. lol
    So nothing to dispute in the article then?
  4. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    23 Nov '12 04:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    So nothing to dispute in the article then?
    I didn't really read it all. It's late here and I'm going to bed. I'll read it tomorrow. But I'm in full support of Israel defending itself and striking back when attacked. Good nite.
  5. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    23 Nov '12 04:06
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    I didn't really read it all. It's late here and I'm going to bed. I'll read it tomorrow. But I'm in full support of Israel defending itself and striking back when attacked. Good nite.
    Goodnight to you.
  6. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    23 Nov '12 04:55
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Ought to be fun to have the site's anti-Semitic wing try to rebut this...

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-why-was-there-war-in-gaza/2012/11/22/c77582e8-3412-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html

    Why was there war in Gaza?
    By Charles Krauthammer,  Published: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 7:53 PM ET
      Aa  
    Why was there an Israel-Ga ...[text shortened]... the night follows the day, will come. Hamas will see to that.

    letters@charleskrauthammer.com
    This is little more than a propaganda piece. Here is an article that refutes it from The Atlantic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/when-will-the-economic-blockade-of-gaza-end/265452/

    Excerpt:

    "It's true that if, say, Canada were lobbing missiles into the US, the US wouldn't tolerate it. But here's another thing the US wouldn't tolerate: If Canada imposed a crippling economic blockade, denying America the import of essential goods and hugely restricting American exports. That would be taken as an act of war, and America would if necessary respond with force--by, perhaps, lobbing missiles into Canada.

    This is the situation Gaza has faced for years: a crippling economic blockade imposed by Israel. Under international pressure, Israel has relaxed the import restrictions, but even so such basic things as cement, gravel, and steel are prohibited from entering Gaza. The rationale is that these items are "dual use" and could be put to military ends. But this logic doesn't explain the most devastating part of the blockade--the severe restrictions on Gaza's exports."
  7. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    23 Nov '12 05:02
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    This is little more than a propaganda piece. Here is an article that refutes it from The Atlantic:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/when-will-the-economic-blockade-of-gaza-end/265452/

    Excerpt:

    "It's true that if, say, Canada were lobbing missiles into the US, the US wouldn't tolerate it. But here's another thing the US w ...[text shortened]... the most devastating part of the blockade--the severe restrictions on Gaza's exports."
    I'd deny economic success to a country that would use that money to further their war effort against me too.
  8. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    23 Nov '12 08:02
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    Ought to be fun to have the site's anti-Semitic wing try to rebut this...

    http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/charles-krauthammer-why-was-there-war-in-gaza/2012/11/22/c77582e8-3412-11e2-bfd5-e202b6d7b501_story.html

    Why was there war in Gaza?
    By Charles Krauthammer,  Published: THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 7:53 PM ET
      Aa  
    Why was there an Israel-Ga ...[text shortened]... nians took over.

    Israel then declared its border with Gaza to be an international frontier,
    I thought: SWEET JESUS...
    But then I noticed it's an opinion....

    Just as well... I mean... only that what I've quoted.
    I mean... you can't have an international frontier without there actually being a country on the other side of said frontier.
    According to the UN Israel is an occupying power (controlling goods, airspace, etc.).
    According to Israel, the Gazastrip does not belong to any sovereign State.

    So, at best (and I'd be stretching the truth to Israeli PR-standards) Israel could consider the Gaza strip as a National frontier.

    It's not though. Is it?