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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    06 Jun '13 19:32
    This is the basic debate going on today, isn't it? Liberals make cartoonish caricatures of conservatives and Republicans as these evil creatures torn between stealing candy from babies and kicking the canes out from grannies crossing the street so they can run them over. Conservatives have their flaws, to be sure - I'm not sure what they are but if I thought hard enough I could come up with some.

    I don't know how anyone can defend the size and scope of government in a month that has seen the IRS target political enemies, the Department of Justice attack a free press, the State Department tell lies to the American people about the deaths of four Americans, the IRS reveal that it spent $49 million on conferences in two years, including Star Trek spoofs, first-class airfare, and $3,500-a-night presidential suites at a time when many Americans were losing their jobs, health benefits, pensions, and economic security. And today the revelation that the NSA is monitoring the communications of presumably every American, but certainly every Verizon customer.

    no1, moonbat, Bill - are these the actions of a good government in a democracy? Is this behavior by your government defensible to you? If so, how?
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    06 Jun '13 19:35
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    This is the basic debate going on today, isn't it? Liberals make cartoonish caricatures of conservatives and Republicans as these evil creatures torn between stealing candy from babies and kicking the canes out from grannies crossing the street so they can run them over. Conservatives have their flaws, to be sure - I'm not sure what they are but if I ...[text shortened]... vernment in a democracy? Is this behavior by your government defensible to you? If so, how?
    Regardless of whether the charges are indefensible, Republicans are still worse.
  3. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    06 Jun '13 19:35
    How do you measure the size of government?
  4. 06 Jun '13 19:51
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Regardless of whether the charges are indefensible, Republicans are still worse.
    With this attitude the Federal government can do what it wants. People like you give the Democrats a free ticket, while similar people on the right give the Republicans a free ride.
  5. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    06 Jun '13 19:58
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    This is the basic debate going on today, isn't it? Liberals make cartoonish caricatures of conservatives and Republicans as these evil creatures torn between stealing candy from babies and kicking the canes out from grannies crossing the street so they can run them over. Conservatives have their flaws, to be sure - I'm not sure what they are but if I ...[text shortened]... vernment in a democracy? Is this behavior by your government defensible to you? If so, how?
    Mr. Sasquatch- I agree with some of what you're saying here, but before you go too far down this path, you might consider the following:

    1. Conservatives make just as many cartoonish caricatures of Liberals, as big government thugs, hellbent on invading everyone's privacy, and turning America into the USSR.

    2. Many of these government intrusions into our privacy were happening during the George W Bush administration, all in the name of "national security"

    3. The IRS spent 49 million on confrences on 2 years? Oh...I suppose the IRS wasted 0 dollars during the reign of "W" huh...NOT! I guess we're not supposed to talk about the untold billions wasted by "W" in that unnecessary Iraq invasion. (Have they found any of those weapons of mass destruction yet???)

    4. If you're referring to the events at Benghazi, yes, the Obama administration does have some explaining to do in this area, but how does that compare to wasting 4000+ brave American soldiers lives searching for weapons of mass destruction (that were not there!)

    5. I don't recall anyone in Obama's administration leaking the name of a member of our intellegence community, just because she and her husband disagrees with the present administrations political views, ala Valorie Plame.

    The Obama administration is not innocent or perfect, but you didn't seem to have problems with some of these items during the reign of George W Bush, so...why the change of heart? (it wouldn't be because Obama has a "D" after his name, would it??) Since folks on your side of the political aisle are just as guilty in many of these areas, I wouldn't be ranting too loudly, if I were you. (Now are you still having problems recalling any Conservative flaws??)
  6. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    06 Jun '13 19:58
    Originally posted by Eladar
    With this attitude the Federal government can do what it wants. People like you give the Democrats a free ticket, while similar people on the right give the Republicans a free ride.
    The evils of a two party system in action.
  7. 06 Jun '13 20:12
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    I don't know how anyone can defend the size and scope of government [...]
    Compared to what?
  8. 06 Jun '13 20:30
    Originally posted by rwingett
    The evils of a two party system in action.
    The two party system isn't to blame, its the people who put their faith in one party or the other.
  9. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    06 Jun '13 21:19
    Originally posted by Eladar
    The two party system isn't to blame, its the people who put their faith in one party or the other.
    If there are two parties and one of them is completely and utterly repulsive, well, I guess you vote for the other.
  10. 06 Jun '13 21:40
    Originally posted by sasquatch672
    I don't know how anyone can defend the size and scope of government...
    In the UK under Harold Wilson's Labour government in the late 1960s, the highest income tax rate was 90%. In 1971, the Conservative government cut the top rate to 75%. On returning to office in 1974, Wilson put it back up to 83%. Coupled with a 15% surcharge on investment and dividends, this created a maximum income tax rate of 98%.

    In these days when maximum tax rates are no more than 40 or 50%, I find it pretty amazing that the political right is still complaining about the size and scope of government. Reagan and Thatcher won that war. Why are you still fighting it?
  11. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    06 Jun '13 23:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Mr. Sasquatch- I agree with some of what you're saying here, but before you go too far down this path, you might consider the following:

    1. Conservatives make just as many cartoonish caricatures of Liberals, as big government thugs, hellbent on invading everyone's privacy, and turning America into the USSR.

    2. Many of these government intrusions into o e you. (Now are you still having problems recalling any Conservative flaws??)
    You don't go back far enough on this site to remember my rants against George Bush. I'm on a plane right now - USAir 895 from Chicago to Philadelphia. I'll address each of your points in detail tomorrow, but the long and the short of my response is, you're 100% right on each point.
  12. 07 Jun '13 00:45
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    How do you measure the size of government?
    Probably the best is by the amount of money it spends. You could count the rules and regulations added to the books each year, or the number of federal employees.
  13. 07 Jun '13 00:52
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If there are two parties and one of them is completely and utterly repulsive, well, I guess you vote for the other.
    What if one is marginally more repulsive?
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    07 Jun '13 00:53
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If there are two parties and one of them is completely and utterly repulsive, well, I guess you vote for the other.
    There are many more than two parties.
  15. 07 Jun '13 00:55
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    In the UK under Harold Wilson's Labour government in the late 1960s, the highest income tax rate was 90%. In 1971, the Conservative government cut the top rate to 75%. On returning to office in 1974, Wilson put it back up to 83%. Coupled with a 15% surcharge on investment and dividends, this created a maximum income tax rate of 98%.

    In these days when m ...[text shortened]... size and scope of government. Reagan and Thatcher won that war. Why are you still fighting it?
    Tax rates of 90% were always a joke. Nobody actually paid those rates. Who, in his right mind, would continue to work and earn if 98% were confiscated? If find it difficult to understand why people continue to fork over 50%, and the truth is that they don't even at that level they find shelters, and loopholes.