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  1. Zugzwang
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    03 Jun '16 23:364 edits
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/women-sexual-harassment-sexism-deescalation

    "The Struggle to Speak Up: How Women are Pushed to De-escalate Sexist Incidents:
    Women shoulder the burden of keeping quiet amid harassment and casual misogyny:
    'If you say something, you're a troublemaker'."
    --Rose Hackman (12 May 2016)

    This male-dominated forum has endemic sexism and thriving casual misogyny.
    And I know that men here will brand me as a 'troublemaker' for saying something about it.
    I already know that nearly all men here apparently loathe everything feminist.

    "...the burden of minimizing incidents being placed squarely on our (women's) shoulders.
    Occurrences could be as mundane as a street catcall, as infuriating as a
    sexist comment at work, or as troubling as an unwelcome physical touch."
    --Rose Hackman

    That's not news to about every woman whom I know.

    "To the initial weight of having to deal with these acts of (male) dominance
    is the added mental drain of having to evaluate how best to deal with it
    and not risk a violent backlash (by men)."
    --Rose Hackman

    Women know that reality, but few men seem capable of comprehending it.

    "...gendered micro and macro-aggression are a 'vast, vast' part of her everyday life."
    --Rose Hackman

    'Gendered micro and macro-aggression' is a normal part of life for any independent
    woman writing on the internet, particularly in male-dominated forums or genres.

    "There are women who have been killed over not responding to men's advances.
    It's not as simple as men who are just giving you a compliment ...
    You've got to make that decision in a second. That's the difference
    between being safe and not safe."
    --Ashwini Hardikar

    And men like to act as though every woman should always feel fully free
    to say 'no' and have it respected by men in every circumstance.
    These men don't take into account the general disparity in power between
    men and women, and the fear that's instilled into women (the 'weaker sex' ).

    "...she (Ashlie Butler) is subjected to sexist comments at work, but feels
    that for her own professional survival she cannot say anything--certainly
    while she hopes to continue being employed. ... 'men are commenting
    on my looks in a way that is inappropriate and make me feel uncomfortable."
    --Rose Hackman

    It's everyday sexism. Some sexist men at RHP have made inappropriate
    comments about the physical appearance of women who write at RHP.

    "I struggle a lot. I have seen how when other people (women) do speak
    up, things don't change--they get bullied or penalized."
    --Ashlie Butler

    "She (Alla Osipenko) spoke caustic truth to power and thus reaped the whirlwind."
    --Joel Lobenthal (in his biography of the Russian ballerina)

    "...she (Nichole Thomas) noticed that every time a junior male colleague
    spoke, his point was uplifted and highlighted by other men, including
    higher-ranking men. Women did not receive the same (supportive) treatment."
    --Rose Hackman

    Men often simply refuse to take seriously what well-educated women have to contribute.

    "When she tries to explain the toll of such (sexist) experiences to men,
    she says it's so exhausting she feels 'it's not even worth the effort half the time'"
    --Rose Hackman

    Most women of my acquaintance regard it as usually a waste of time to attempt to
    educate men about sexism because most men simply refuse to learn or to change.

    "They (men) don't get it. It's (sexism) not a reality for them."
    --Ashlie Butler

    She's right. Few men have any comprehension or concern about sexism.

    I expect that few men here will have any appreciation of what this article means.
    So why did I post this? As Voltaire said, pour encourager les autres.

    "
  2. SubscriberWajoma
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    03 Jun '16 23:471 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64

    "There are women who have killed over not responding to men's advances.
    It's not as simple as men who are just giving you a compliment ...
    You've got to make that decision in a second. That's the difference
    between being safe and not safe."
    --Ashwini Hardikar


    "
    This is serious. But I wonder how the stats stack up; men killed versus women killed, and if one is desiring not to be killed which sex is safest.
  3. The Catbird's Seat
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    03 Jun '16 23:55
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/women-sexual-harassment-sexism-deescalation

    "The Struggle to Speak Up: How Women are Pushed to De-escalate Sexist Incidents:
    Women shoulder the burden of keeping quiet amid harassment and casual misogyny:
    'If you say something, you're a troublemaker'."
    --Rose Hackman (12 May 2016)

    This male-dominated f ...[text shortened]... this article means.
    So why did I post this? As Voltaire said, pour encourager les autres.

    "
    I suspect that "sexism" is more a progression of ideas and practices, than a simple you are or you aren't, two position matter.

    As to the matter of de-escalation, or escalation of sexist incidents, both exist. Some matters, that really don't matter end up front page news, and law suits, while other more pressing and deserving matters are ignored.

    I suppose that the matter has to be important to the woman involved. Not every woman wants to slog through a court action for the sisterhood.
  4. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '16 00:01
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    This is serious. But I wonder how the stats stack up; men killed versus women killed, and if one is desiring not to be killed which sex is safest.
    EDIT: "There are women who have *been* killed over not responding to men's advances."
    I regret that I omitted typing 'been' when earlier quoting Ashwini Hardikar.

    "This is serious."
    --Wajoma

    Wajoma acts like it's breaking news. About every woman knows that if she rejects or even
    ignores the wrong man at the wrong time in the wrong place, he could turn violent against her.

    Does Wajoma really have any sincere doubt about whether it's more common for men to kill
    women than for women to kill men after being ignored or rejected romantically or sexually?
  5. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '16 00:081 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I suspect that "sexism" is more a progression of ideas and practices, than a simple you are or you aren't, two position matter.

    As to the matter of de-escalation, or escalation of sexist incidents, both exist. Some matters, that really don't matter end up front page news, and law suits, while other more pressing and deserving matters are ignored.

    ...[text shortened]... to the woman involved. Not every woman wants to slog through a court action for the sisterhood.
    This forum has a culture of endemic sexism (with Normbenign as one of its worst offenders).

    "Women on this site know that if they contribute to the debates Forum, they get subjected
    to abusive tirades from ignorant trolls."
    --Finnegan (to Bill718, criticizing Bill718's abusive trolling of me, page 1, post 4, "American Rabbi's Comments on Rape" )

    In the interest of clarity, I do *not* regard Normbenign's post as an 'abusive tirade'.
    It's just another corroboration of his insensitivity to sexism and other women's issues.
  6. Joined
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    04 Jun '16 00:17
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/women-sexual-harassment-sexism-deescalation

    "The Struggle to Speak Up: How Women are Pushed to De-escalate Sexist Incidents:
    Women shoulder the burden of keeping quiet amid harassment and casual misogyny:
    'If you say something, you're a troublemaker'."
    --Rose Hackman (12 May 2016)

    This male-dominated f ...[text shortened]... this article means.
    So why did I post this? As Voltaire said, pour encourager les autres.

    "
    So is Trump referring to Elizabeth Warren as "Pochahontas" sexist or just flat out hilarious?
  7. The Catbird's Seat
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    04 Jun '16 00:18
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    EDIT: "There are women who have *been* killed over not responding to men's advances."
    I regret that I omitted typing 'been' when earlier quoting Ashwini Hardikar.

    "This is serious."
    --Wajoma

    Wajoma acts like it's breaking news. About every woman knows that if she rejects or even
    ignores the wrong man at the wrong time in the wrong place, he coul ...[text shortened]... kill
    women than for women to kill men after being ignored or rejected romantically or sexually?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender

    Every statistical source I found was similar to this one. Men are murdered at alarmingly greater frequency than are women.
  8. Zugzwang
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    04 Jun '16 00:24
    Originally posted by normbenign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide_statistics_by_gender

    Every statistical source I found was similar to this one. Men are murdered at alarmingly greater frequency than are women.
    Normbenign has idiotically ignored or flagrantly dishonestly distorted the context.
    Those statistics are big 'lump-all' figures of people killed under *every possible circumstance*.
    The relevant context is whether it's more common for men to kill women or for women
    to kill men after being ignored or rejected in romantic or social situations.

    It speaks to the depth of dishonest misogyny at RHP that any man might attempt to
    insinuate that men have more reasons to fear violence from women than for women
    to fear violence from men. That's absurd. But it's no more absurd than the common
    racist belief at RHP that white people are the most oppressed by racism in the USA.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Jun '16 07:53
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/12/women-sexual-harassment-sexism-deescalation

    "The Struggle to Speak Up: How Women are Pushed to De-escalate Sexist Incidents:
    Women shoulder the burden of keeping quiet amid harassment and casual misogyny:
    'If you say something, you're a troublemaker'."
    --Rose Hackman (12 May 2016)

    This male-dominated f ...[text shortened]... this article means.
    So why did I post this? As Voltaire said, pour encourager les autres.

    "
    This is "speaking truth to power" in a very fundamental way.

    Everything in this post is spot on.

    "pour encourager les autres"

    Exactly!
  10. Joined
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    04 Jun '16 08:28
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    This is serious. But I wonder how the stats stack up; men killed versus women killed, and if one is desiring not to be killed which sex is safest.
    NEVER heard this argument before.
    "women have this real problem, but men have it rough too"
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    04 Jun '16 10:30
    Originally posted by whodey
    So is Trump referring to Elizabeth Warren as "Pochahontas" sexist or just flat out hilarious?
    Mainly it's just stupid.
  12. Account suspended
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    04 Jun '16 11:301 edit
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    This is serious. But I wonder how the stats stack up; men killed versus women killed, and if one is desiring not to be killed which sex is safest.
    Women have been the recipients of special privileges and even venerated in the West since time began.
  13. Joined
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    04 Jun '16 23:32
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Mainly it's just stupid.
    Why? She claims to be an Indian but has no proof of it.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    05 Jun '16 07:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    Why? She claims to be an Indian but has no proof of it.
    So why call her Pocahontas? That's why it's stupid.

    Meanwhile, there is plenty of proof that Trump lies at least as often as he changes his socks, so should we now call him "Pinocchio"?
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    05 Jun '16 07:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Women have been the recipients of special privileges and even venerated in the West since time began.
    And you've shown yourself to be a misogynist since you've been here.

    What was your point again?
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