The U.S. snookered by Afghan poll pull-out?

Afghanistan poll in disarray after pull-out
Afghanistan's election is thrown into confusion after President Karzai's rival says he will pull out of the second round next week.

President Hamid Karzai's rival in the second round of the Afghan presidential election has announced in Kabul that he is withdrawing from the poll.

"I will not participate in the election," Dr Abdullah told supporters, saying his demands for ensuring a fraud-free election had not been met.

But he stopped short of calling for a boycott of next Saturday's vote.

Mr Karzai had rejected his demand that election officials who presided over the first round should be dismissed.

What impact will this have on the U.S.'s military startegy in Afghanistan?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Afghanistan poll in disarray after pull-out
Afghanistan's election is thrown into confusion after President Karzai's rival says he will pull out of the second round next week.

President Hamid Karzai's rival in the second round of the Afghan presidential election has announced in Kabul that he is withdrawing from the poll.

"I will not pa ...[text shortened]...

What impact will this have on the U.S.'s military startegy in Afghanistan?[/b]

Im not sure what impact it will have on the military strategy, but it does raise the question "what exactly are we fighting for?" since afghanistan is only democratic in theory.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Afghanistan poll in disarray after pull-out
Afghanistan's election is thrown into confusion after President Karzai's rival says he will pull out of the second round next week.

President Hamid Karzai's rival in the second round of the Afghan presidential election has announced in Kabul that he is withdrawing from the poll.

"I will not pa ...[text shortened]...

What impact will this have on the U.S.'s military startegy in Afghanistan?[/b]

I don't think the pull out makes Karzai's election any less legitimate. He gave in an agreed to a run off. Now Abdullah realizes he's going to lose the run-off and so he stomps off, complaining of fraud. Dismissing and replacing the election officials is not something inherently necessary to facilitate a free election.

===What impact will this have on the U.S.'s military startegy in Afghanistan?===

Well, I think we should pull the ground troops out anyway, so this doesn't impact my opinion much; but I don't think this development will have much impact on President Obama's view either.

Originally posted by sh76
I don't think the pull out makes Karzai's election any less legitimate. He gave in an agreed to a run off. Now Abdullah realizes he's going to lose the run-off and so he stomps off, complaining of fraud. Dismissing and replacing the election officials is not something inherently necessary to facilitate a free election.

===What impact will this have on the U ...[text shortened]... ut I don't think this development will have much impact on President Obama's view either.

so you deny that there is fraud?

Well, I think we should pull the ground troops out anyway,

you can't be serious.

Originally posted by generalissimo
so you deny that there is fraud?

[b]Well, I think we should pull the ground troops out anyway,

you can't be serious.[/b]

I don't know whether there was fraud. There probably was. But that's not the point. The point is whether pulling out of the run-off, which hasn't taken place yet, so obviously cannot have been tainted by fraud yet, impacts the validity of Karzai's impending victory.

===you can't be serious.===

Why not? What is the end game there? To keep crushing the Taliban and having them come back the next year ad infinitum. Pull out the ground troops and hammer them from the air when they need some hammering and away you go.

Originally posted by sh76
I don't know whether there was fraud. There probably was. But that's not the point. The point is whether pulling out of the run-off, which hasn't taken place yet, so obviously cannot have been tainted by fraud yet, impacts the validity of Karzai's impending victory.

===you can't be serious.===

Why not? What is the end game there? To keep crushing the Tali ...[text shortened]... e ground troops and hammer them from the air when they need some hammering and away you go.

I don't know whether there was fraud. There probably was. But that's not the point. The point is whether pulling out of the run-off, which hasn't taken place yet, so obviously cannot have been tainted by fraud yet, impacts the validity of Karzai's impending victory.

it is very likely that there was.
Maybe it was too premature, but I get where he is coming from, whats the point of going there if the elections aren't fair?

Why not? What is the end game there? To keep crushing the Taliban and having them come back the next year ad infinitum. Pull out the ground troops and hammer them from the air when they need some hammering and away you go.

It is better to finish it properly once you started it, they're not going to come back if you destroy their bases. Hammering them from the air won't do a thing if they're hidden, you'll just be wasting ammunition.

Originally posted by generalissimo
Im not sure what impact it will have on the military strategy, but it does raise the question "what exactly are we fighting for?" since afghanistan is only democratic in theory.

So what is better? Is it better having the masses be deomcratic and electing a terrorist organization like Hamas, or would it be better to have a dictator who does not seek to destroy the US?

Come to think of it, how democratic is the US when Obama lost the popular election in his own party?

Originally posted by sh76
I don't know whether there was fraud. There probably was. But that's not the point. The point is whether pulling out of the run-off, which hasn't taken place yet, so obviously cannot have been tainted by fraud yet, impacts the validity of Karzai's impending victory.

===you can't be serious.===

Why not? What is the end game there? To keep crushing the Tali ...[text shortened]... e ground troops and hammer them from the air when they need some hammering and away you go.

I say we should pull out and hire Executive Outcomes to clean up the mess, same as the US did in Croatia.

GRANNY.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]Afghanistan poll in disarray after pull-out
Afghanistan's election is thrown into confusion after President Karzai's rival says he will pull out of the second round next week.

President Hamid Karzai's rival in the second round of the Afghan presidential election has announced in Kabul that he is withdrawing from the poll.

"I will not pa

What impact will this have on the U.S.'s military startegy in Afghanistan?[/b]

I don't think the U.S. was 'snookered" by anything regarding the recent Afghan election. Most people are aware there was widespread fraud. Obama is wise to wait until there is a properly elected, legitimate government in place before deciding on troop levels in that country.😏

Originally posted by bill718
I don't think the U.S. was 'snookered" by anything regarding the recent Afghan election. Most people are aware there was widespread fraud. Obama is wise to wait until there is a properly elected, legitimate government in place before deciding on troop levels in that country.😏

Great. Now define "properly elected, legitimate government." When Karzai is elected against no one, is that a properly elected, legitimate government?

Originally posted by sh76
Great. Now define "properly elected, legitimate government." When Karzai is elected against no one, is that a properly elected, legitimate government?

Interesting question. I'd have to say if no one runs against Karzi in the run off election, and there is little or no voter fraud, then his post in the government is legitimate. That remains to be seen however.😏

Originally posted by sh76
Abdullah realizes he's going to lose the run-off and so he stomps off, complaining of fraud. Dismissing and replacing the election officials is not something inherently necessary to facilitate a free election.

I wonder what your motivation is for taking sides in this way. It was Karzai who was revealed to have been crooked, mjassively so, in the first attempt to hold the election. Abdullah is complaining of fraud. His demands have not been met. If he genuinely thinks that the election will be stolen, as seems likely, should he legitimize it by standing? Dismissing and replacing corrupt election officials is something inherently necessary to facilitate a free election. It hasn't happened. Would you stand if you were in his shoes? Or would you "stomp off", as you put it?

Originally posted by sh76
When Karzai is elected against no one, is that a properly elected, legitimate government?

Not if he is a crook, backed by a foreign power. Not if the election process is so riddled with corruption, stage managed by the incumbent, that no one is willing to legitimize the fiasco by standing against him.

Originally posted by bill718
Interesting question. I'd have to say if no one runs against Karzi in the run off election, and there is little or no voter fraud, then his post in the government is legitimate. That remains to be seen however.😏

If no one runs against him, there will be precious little need for election fraud, now won't there?

Originally posted by sh76
If no one runs against him, there will be precious little need for election fraud, now won't there?

Sounds like the sort of thing the U.S. used to come out with when it supported Saddam Hussein, Soeharto, Mobutu et al.