Originally posted by quackquack Lets look at the total bill because that's what matters: Warren Buffet pays far more capital gains taxes and more income tax than virtually everyone in the world. And this is consistent with the reality that the US has a system where those with less money have imposed their will to tax those with more.
Previously, you were talking in terms of percentages. Now you're talking in terms of fixed amounts of money.
If we're going to look at fixed amounts of money - even if you had an extremely regressive tax system that was inversely graduated so that you had to pay a higher percentage as you got poorer, the rich would still pay a lot more in fixed amounts than the poor.
So perhaps there is a point where the poor can impose their will because there'd be an insurrection if you tried to impose an inversely graduated tax. Maybe this is what Rwingett is getting at -- if the poor were more inclined to have insurrections, perhaps the tax system would impose more upon the rich than it presently does.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung Warren Buffet is in favor of heavy and progressive estate taxes.
Warren Buffett continues to satirize the hard work myth with his now infamous
characterization of inherited wealth as “privately funded food stamps” (Lowenstein,
1995, p. 334). To Buffett, inherited wealth is perversely analogous to inherited talent.
He argues that if talent ...[text shortened]... s before private
“unearned income.”
You do realize that Buffet is a liberal guilt-ridden pinko elitist who thinks his own wealthy position gives him the right to tell the Middle Class what they're allowed to do with their hard-earned money.
Originally posted by twhitehead So you are dodging the question? What percentage does he pay?
I am not dodging the question at all. Your assumption that all tax rates should be the same percentage is not based on equity or logic. Sales tax, hotel tax, gasoline tax, income tax, FICA, estate tax, cigerette taxes, tax on lottery winning, taxes on illegal drugs are all at different rates. In the end he pays hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes per year because we have a system where we insist that taxes be paid in percentage not fixed amounts.
We could impose an even more burdensome system but let's recognize that we already have imposed huge burdens by taxing in percentages when we allocate rights like voting in fixed terms.
Originally posted by Melanerpes Previously, you were talking in terms of percentages. Now you're talking in terms of fixed amounts of money.
If we're going to look at fixed amounts of money - even if you had an extremely regressive tax system that was inversely graduated so that you had to pay a higher percentage as you got poorer, the rich would still pay a lot more in fixed amounts ...[text shortened]... insurrections, perhaps the tax system would impose more upon the rich than it presently does.
You could impose a flat amount taxation system.
To implement this, there is obviously a problem when someone has no or insufficient income, but the difference could be a debt, to repaid later. So let's say people paid tax only from ages 15 to 65, and only a fixed amount, up to a certain maximum. The maximum would have to be pretty high, though, since the rich would pay very little taxes. So let's say the maximum would be 75% of their income if 75% of their income is less than the fixed amount. You would have a large underclass who would pay 75% of their income in taxes (and if they managed to earn a bit more, they'd still pay that to pay off their tax debts). And you would have a small rich elite paying very little taxes at all. It's possible to put in practise.
Originally posted by quackquack I am not dodging the question at all. Your assumption that all tax rates should be the same percentage is not based on equity or logic.
I made no such assumptions at all. We were claiming that the highest earners pay the least amount of tax (percentage wise) and gave an example of Warren Buffett.
If you are arguing that all people should pay the same amount (not a percentage of income) then I think you would find that the average person would go home with no income at all, and the richest person would pay 0.0000000001 percent of their income or what they earned in one second of one day of the year.
Sales tax, hotel tax, gasoline tax, income tax, FICA, estate tax, cigerette taxes, tax on lottery winning, taxes on illegal drugs are all at different rates. And they are all percentage based. Sales tax is however in my opinion largely unfair and I don't support it except where it is intended as a deterrent such as gasoline tax or cigarette taxes.
In the end he pays hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes per year because we have a system where we insist that taxes be paid in percentage not fixed amounts. We could impose an even more burdensome system but let's recognize that we already have imposed huge burdens by taxing in percentages when we allocate rights like voting in fixed terms. But 'burdens' are relative. In reality, the income tax I pay is more of a burden on me than the hundreds of millions of dollars paid by Warren Buffett is on him.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra You could impose a flat amount taxation system.
To implement this, there is obviously a problem when someone has no or insufficient income, but the difference could be a debt, to repaid later. So let's say people paid tax only from ages 15 to 65, and only a fixed amount, up to a certain maximum. The maximum would have to be pretty high, though, since ...[text shortened]... d have a small rich elite paying very little taxes at all. It's possible to put in practise.
don't give the conservatives any ideas...(actually it would be interesting if they were to propose something like this...perhaps it would inspire the poor to behave in the way Rwingett wants them to behave.)
Originally posted by twhitehead I made no such assumptions at all. We were claiming that the highest earners pay the least amount of tax (percentage wise) and gave an example of Warren Buffett.
If you are arguing that all people should pay the same amount (not a percentage of income) then I think you would find that the average person would go home with no income at all, and the rich ...[text shortened]... of a burden on me than the hundreds of millions of dollars paid by Warren Buffett is on him.
Buffett certainly pays "the most" taxes in absolute terms. He has no greater citizenship rights than you or me but has a much higher tax paying bill. He also pays the highest percentage of taxes in every category of taxes. Thus, he pays a higher percentage of his income in taxes and he pays the same percentage of his income in capital gains.
Nothing ever satisfies certain people. Buffet pays his hundred million dollar tax bill. He is in the highest income tax bracket and he pays his full capital gains taxes as capital gains.
Originally posted by Melanerpes don't give the conservatives any ideas...(actually it would be interesting if they were to propose something like this...perhaps it would inspire the poor to behave in the way Rwingett wants them to behave.)
Originally posted by quackquack Nothing ever satisfies certain people. Buffet pays his hundred million dollar tax bill. He is in the highest income tax bracket and he pays his full capital gains taxes as capital gains.
Originally posted by Palynka What a lovely spin. Chapeau! 😵
Its reality. Complaining that he does not pay even more taxes because his income which he earn passively and not actively should have been earned activiely and taxed as such is just silly.
Originally posted by quackquack Its reality. Complaining that he does not pay even more taxes because his income which he earn passively and not actively should have been earned activiely and taxed as such is just silly.
Buffet is a liberal, you know that right? He's into Social Justice, and Democrats, and all that...
Originally posted by quackquack Buffett certainly pays "the most" taxes in absolute terms. He has no greater citizenship rights than you or me but has a much higher tax paying bill. He also pays the highest percentage of taxes in every category of taxes. Thus, he pays a higher percentage of his income in taxes and he pays the same percentage of his income in capital gains.
Well thats what we were discussing. Does he pay the highest percentage of his income in tax? You are stating it as fact, but is there any evidence that that is the case?
When you were asked that as a direct question, you dodged the question.
The Vicissitudes of Voting
04 Aug '10 16:291 edit
Back to Top