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Debates Forum

  1. 03 Nov '10 22:49
    Pelosi said she had "no regrets" after losing her position as the most powerful woman in American politics and said the country's unemployment problem was to blame for the Democrats' loss.

    "We believe we did the right thing, and we worked very hard in our campaigns to convey that to the American people,"



    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclusive-house-speaker-nancy-pelosi-interview-diane-sawyer/story?id=12047865


    I read that last line and laughed because she still doesn't get it. I don't think Obama gets it either. You can't do what you believe is right. You have to do what the American people believe is right. If what you do flies in the face of what the people want, you will not remain in power.


    I remember Rush going on about Clinton because Bill used to do study groups to see what would fly with people and what would fail. If it failed, Bill didn't do it. If people liked it, Bill would do it. Do what the American people want and you will be popular. Don't do what the American people want and you better hope the other party makes a lot of mistakes.


    Telling people what they wanted to hear is what got Obama elected. If he wants to survive and get re-elected he will need to give up his ideological crusade and start giving the American people what they want.
  2. 03 Nov '10 23:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]Pelosi said she had "no regrets" after losing her position as the most powerful woman in American politics and said the country's unemployment problem was to blame for the Democrats' loss.

    "We believe we did the right thing, and we worked very hard in our campaigns to convey that to the American people,"



    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclu give up his ideological crusade and start giving the American people what they want.[/b]
    basically - what the American people "want" is:

    "Get rid of all that excessive government spending - but don't cut anything that I personally benefit from. And gimme a big tax cut. Do something about the economy and create jobs. But make sure you balance the budget. And whatever you do - Keep your Government Hands off my Medicare!!"

    So forget what the American people "want" - its mathematically impossible. Any politician claiming he's going to do everything that the people "want" is a charlatan. What Congress needs to do is find a way to agree on what is truly best for the American people and then find a way to persuade everyone to accept the costs.
  3. 03 Nov '10 23:08 / 1 edit
    Americans did not want Obamacare. Americans do not want Socialized medicine because Americans know that we can't afford it.

    Americans want the US government to cost less money. Americans would have been OK if Obama had increased taxes on those who made more than 250K per year, it was part of his campaign.

    Instead Obama saw his election as the people giving him the authority to push for his ideological agenda. He suffered the consequences for his faulty assumption. Any politician who thinks he has the people's mandate simply because he got elected is fooling himself.
  4. 03 Nov '10 23:23 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Americans did not want Obamacare. Americans do not want Socialized medicine because Americans know that we can't afford it.

    Americans want the US government to cost less money. Americans would have been OK if Obama had increased taxes on those who made more than 250K per year, it was part of his campaign.

    Instead Obama saw his election as the people g ...[text shortened]... ician who thinks he has the people's mandate simply because he got elected is fooling himself.
    Obamacare was also part of his campaign. So why isn't that part okay with you?

    And Americans seem to like socialized medicine and no one had better dare cut it (Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare). In fact, one of the reasons why a lot of people don't like Obamacare is because it includes Medicare cuts.

    As for the ideological agenda - Obama pretty much caved in to the insurance companies' economic agenda. He could have included a public option. He could have just provided Medicare for everyone. The sorts of things that the ideologues wanted. But he compromised all of that away and gave the insurance industry a gravy train.

    Even the GOP seems to agree with much of what's in the plan. They hope to triumphantly eliminate "Obamacare" and then replace it with pretty much the same thing - except they'll then call it something like Healthcare Choice and people like you will support it.
  5. 03 Nov '10 23:31
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    basically - what the American people "want" is:

    "Get rid of all that excessive government spending - but don't cut anything that I personally benefit from. And gimme a big tax cut. Do something about the economy and create jobs. But make sure you balance the budget. And whatever you do - Keep your Government Hands off my Medicare!!"

    So forget what t ...[text shortened]... for the American people and then find a way to persuade everyone to accept the costs.
    I agree.... I think politicians have to step up and make the cuts....do the right thing. They can even raise taxes...so long as it is mandated to go toward debt reduction. We need better politicians. Its easy to sell Christmas presents...its hard to tell people they have to pay for them.

    Institute term limits...so we don't have people clinging onto these elected positions by selling our treasure to the devil.

    Its funny... The only thing that I have ever seen Ed Shultz and Glenn Beck agree on is term limits. And that idea gets so little pub. We should be screaming for these at the top of our lungs...and don't give me elections are term limits...incumbents but your vote with your money....
  6. 03 Nov '10 23:47 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by highdraw
    I agree.... I think politicians have to step up and make the cuts....do the right thing. They can even raise taxes...so long as it is mandated to go toward debt reduction. We need better politicians. Its easy to sell Christmas presents...its hard to tell people they have to pay for them.

    Institute term limits...so we don't have people clinging onto th ...[text shortened]... s...and don't give me elections are term limits...incumbents but your vote with your money....
    Term limits were one of the Big Things back in 1994. Everybody wanted them. And yet, the whole thing kind of fizzled out and even those Congressmen who imposed a voluntary term limit on themselves kind of "forgot" about it when they reached their "limit". I agree that its a good idea, but I doubt its ever going to happen.

    Ultimately, we need a better public. We get the politicians we deserve. Even incumbent politicians will act if the public puts enough pressure on them. The Tea Party's mission is to make sure that the GOP keeps their word this time and actually reduces government spending. And if the Tea Party presses hard enough and long enough, they might actually succeed. The fear of a legitimate primary challenge can do wonders.

    I might not agree with many of the things conservatives want to cut -- but lets finally have an honest and open discussion about cutting spending in which everything is laid out on the table.

    But the Tea Party needs to make sure not to fall for the usual tricks as politicians pretend to be cutting spending without actually doing it (I posted a thread about this earlier today).
  7. 04 Nov '10 00:05
    Term limits were one of the Big Things back in 1994. Everybody wanted them. And yet, the whole thing kind of fizzled out and even those Congressmen who imposed a voluntary term limit on themselves kind of "forgot" about it when they reached their "limit".

    Tom Coburn has lived up to his pledge on term limits: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20101005_16_A1_CUTLIN752807
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    04 Nov '10 01:59
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]Pelosi said she had "no regrets" after losing her position as the most powerful woman in American politics and said the country's unemployment problem was to blame for the Democrats' loss.

    "We believe we did the right thing, and we worked very hard in our campaigns to convey that to the American people,"



    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclu ...[text shortened]... give up his ideological crusade and start giving the American people what they want.[/b]
    If I remember correctly, during the Bush years the American people wanted a leader who was resolute and stuck with his beliefs, not one who flip-flopped with the latest poll results.

    What changed?
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    04 Nov '10 02:00
    Originally posted by Eladar
    [b]Pelosi said she had "no regrets" after losing her position as the most powerful woman in American politics and said the country's unemployment problem was to blame for the Democrats' loss.

    "We believe we did the right thing, and we worked very hard in our campaigns to convey that to the American people,"



    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclu ...[text shortened]... give up his ideological crusade and start giving the American people what they want.[/b]
    The House was Democratic because Republican economic policies failed to translate to gains for the working class.

    The House is now Republican because Democratic economic policies (which were NOT progressive ones) failed to translate to gains for the working class.

    Both parties are too beholden to economic elites to correct their errors, so we can expect control to continue to swing wildly.
  10. 04 Nov '10 02:01
    The House went Democrat because people hated Bush and anyone with an R next to his or her name was repugnant to most people.
  11. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    06 Nov '10 15:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    Term limits were one of the Big Things back in 1994. Everybody wanted them. And yet, the whole thing kind of fizzled out and even those Congressmen who imposed a voluntary term limit on themselves kind of "forgot" about it when they reached their "limit". I agree that its a good idea, but I doubt its ever going to happen.

    Ultimately, we need a better p be cutting spending without actually doing it (I posted a thread about this earlier today).
    Term limits are a joke, look at Jerry Brown, all he did was run for a different office
    and now he is back. In order to get rid of those we do not want, we have to do what
    was done this past election, vote them out.
    Kelly
  12. 06 Nov '10 16:09
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Term limits are a joke, look at Jerry Brown, all he did was run for a different office
    and now he is back. In order to get rid of those we do not want, we have to do what
    was done this past election, vote them out.
    Kelly
    I know, maybe when their term limit is up we shoot them.
  13. 07 Nov '10 00:08
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The House was Democratic because Republican economic policies failed to translate to gains for the working class.

    The House is now Republican because Democratic economic policies (which were NOT progressive ones) failed to translate to gains for the working class.

    Both parties are too beholden to economic elites to correct their errors, so we can expect control to continue to swing wildly.
    At least with Republicans in charge, there WAS a working class.
  14. 07 Nov '10 00:14 / 5 edits
    It doesn't make sense consercatives wanting term limits. Term limits are to protect the voting populace from themselves. On this issue you want the government modifying our behavior?

    Nice, I guess to cherry pick, much easier than being a true ideologue.

    The conservatives (are they really) on this site are always crying about the liberals stepping on their rights. Yet you want take away perhaps the most precoius right of all - the right to vote for who you choose.

    You better look at the mirror a little harder. You might see two faces.
  15. 07 Nov '10 00:33
    keeping drugs illegal is to protect the populace from themselves too.

    Conservatives?
    Isn't that an oxymoron?