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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    19 Apr '10 14:55
    And by mad I mean pi$$ed mad. Why didn't they film her instead?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQsceZ9skQI

    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/1986----.htm

    When the world's two great propaganda systems agree on some doctrine, it requires some intellectual effort to escape its shackles. One such doctrine is that the society created by Lenin and Trotsky and molded further by Stalin and his successors has some relation to socialism in some meaningful or historically accurate sense of this concept. In fact, if there is a relation, it is the relation of contradiction.
  2. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Apr '10 15:29
    Why, adam, you haven't caught on that the idealized socialism you have in mind only exists as a propaganda weapon?
  3. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    19 Apr '10 15:40
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Why, adam, you haven't caught on that the idealized socialism you have in mind only exists as a propaganda weapon?
    I think you're missing the point. But if you'd expand a little bit more I'll try to answer.
  4. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    19 Apr '10 15:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    I think you're missing the point. But if you'd expand a little bit more I'll try to answer.
    Meh. Since you're doing a zeeblebot and just pasting a link with a selected quote I'll probably pass.

    Edit - I haven't watched the video, but I'm probably more interested in Chomsky's opinions.
  5. 19 Apr '10 17:13
    list of successful socialist entities, please.
  6. 19 Apr '10 17:53 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    list of successful socialist entities, please.
    Well, according to the wild right wingers on this site, most of Europe qualifies as "socialist". And for all its problems, it's reasonably successful by international standards.
  7. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    19 Apr '10 18:41
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    Well, according to the wild right wingers on this site, most of Europe qualifies as "socialist". And for all its problems, it's reasonably successful by international standards.
    Kindergärtners who know their place. Nothing more, nothing less.
  8. 19 Apr '10 18:45
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    Well, according to the wild right wingers on this site, most of Europe qualifies as "socialist". And for all its problems, it's reasonably successful by international standards.
    It's a funny little dichotomy, isn't it? Obama is "socialist" - even though his policies so far place him on par with or to the right of right-wing parties in most of the industrialized world - so by that definition, almost every democratic nation in the world is "socialist". Yet when they are asking for socialism's successes, they claim there are none despite the high standard of living in many - apparently socialist - industrialized nations.
  9. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    19 Apr '10 20:59
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Meh. Since you're doing a zeeblebot and just pasting a link with a selected quote I'll probably pass.

    Edit - I haven't watched the video, but I'm probably more interested in Chomsky's opinions.
    In that case why address me in the first place?
  10. 19 Apr '10 23:09
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    Well, according to the wild right wingers on this site, most of Europe qualifies as "socialist". And for all its problems, it's reasonably successful by international standards.
    how can they be socialist if they're capitalist?
  11. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    20 Apr '10 03:08
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    how can they be socialist if they're capitalist?
    Ah yes, another old chesnut from the made-in-the-U.S. Three Day Master's Degree in Political Science.
  12. 20 Apr '10 03:20
    are there a bunch of eur-o-pee-ins running around chanting "we're the SOCIALIST capitalists!"?
  13. 20 Apr '10 15:17
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    are there a bunch of eur-o-pee-ins running around chanting "we're the SOCIALIST capitalists!"?
    Not literally, but for example the Dutch Socialist Party does not want to abolish capitalism.
  14. 20 Apr '10 16:39
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Not literally, but for example the Dutch Socialist Party does not want to abolish capitalism.
    well, then. wouldn't that disqualify them from the list?
  15. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    20 Apr '10 16:56
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    well, then. wouldn't that disqualify them from the list?
    Are you going to tell them?
    Or sue them for false advertising?

    I think most people understand "Socialism" as a democracy with
    some sort of welfare state
    a policy of redistribution of wealth through taxation
    legislation on markets (particularly monopolies)
    and perhaps above all a fair society

    a long way from Marx!!