Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    24 Feb '19 20:501 edit
    As far as I have noticed, most men here apparently insist that the brain
    must be naturally very gendered, with major intrinsic differences
    between 'male brains' and 'female brains', which must affect their
    performances in about every field (including chess).

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

    "Meet the neuroscientist shattering the myth of the gendered brain
    Why asking whether your brain is male or female is the wrong question"

    "Rippon has analysed the data on sex differences in the brain.
    She admits that she, like many others, initially sought out these differences.
    But she couldn’t find any beyond the negligible, and other research
    was also starting to question the very existence of such differences.
    For example, once any differences in brain size were accounted
    for, “well-known” sex differences in key structures disappeared.
    Which is when the penny dropped: perhaps it was time to abandon
    the age-old search for the differences between brains from men
    and brains from women. Are there any significant differences
    based on sex alone? The answer, she says, is no."

    "“Of course there are sex differences. Anatomically, men and women are different.
    The brain is a biological organ. Sex is a biological factor.
    But it is not the sole factor; it intersects with so many variables.”
    --Gina Rippon
  2. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
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    25 Feb '19 16:59
    I constantly think about sex.
    And I couldn’t care what gender someone’s brain is, I’d still shag it, fry it and eat it.

    Not particularly in that order either.
  3. Behind the scenes
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    25 Feb '19 19:58
    @duchess64 said
    As far as I have noticed, most men here apparently insist that the brain
    must be naturally very gendered, with major intrinsic differences
    between 'male brains' and 'female brains', which must affect their
    performances in about every field (including chess).

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-br ...[text shortened]... ical factor.
    But it is not the sole factor; it intersects with so many variables.”
    --Gina Rippon
    As far as I have noticed, most men here apparently insist that the brain must be naturally very gendered, with major intrinsic differences between 'male brains' and 'female brains', which must affect their performances in about every field (including chess).



    I've not insisted anything like this. I would suggest however there are far more differences between the brains of males and females than have been discovered.
  4. Zugzwang
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    25 Feb '19 20:041 edit
    @mchill said
    As far as I have noticed, most men here apparently insist that the brain must be naturally very gendered, with major intrinsic differences between 'male brains' and 'female brains', which must affect their performances in about every field (including chess).

    I've not insisted anything like this. I would suggest however there are far more differences between the brains of males and females than have been discovered.
    Mchill seems ignorant of the continuing trend in scientific research or thought.
    In fact, (male) scientists used to believe that there were more gendered differences in brains.

    Back in the 19th century, scientists (all men at that time) believed that men and women
    must have extremely different brains--with male brains being obviously superior.
    This 'fact' was used to rationalize laws and policies designed to keep women dependent on men.
    The argument of female brain inferiority was used to oppose allowing women to vote.
    It was classic scientific sexism.
  5. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
    A Spirited Misfit
    in London
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    25 Feb '19 20:13
    @duchess64 said
    As far as I have noticed, most men here apparently insist that the brain
    must be naturally very gendered, with major intrinsic differences
    between 'male brains' and 'female brains', which must affect their
    performances in about every field (including chess).

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-br ...[text shortened]... ical factor.
    But it is not the sole factor; it intersects with so many variables.”
    --Gina Rippon
    As a man, I neither insist that or believe that.

    You sound a little sexist in your assertion, to be honest with you.
  6. Zugzwang
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    25 Feb '19 20:225 edits
    @ghost-of-a-duke said
    As a man, I neither insist that or believe that.

    You sound a little sexist in your assertion, to be honest with you.
    Ghost of a Duke shows poor reading comprehension.
    (Given the same level of education, are men worse than women on average in reading?)
    Ghost of a Duke hastens to attack a blatantly illogical 'strawman'.

    "As far as I have noticed, MOST MEN HERE apparently insist that the brain
    must be naturally very gendered, with major intrinsic differences
    between 'male brains' and 'female brains', which must affect their
    performances in about every field (including chess)."
    --Duchess64

    'MOST men here' does NOT mean ALL men, contrary to what Ghost of a Duke apparently believes.

    In threads about why there are far fewer women than men who are strong chess players,
    my impression was that most, though not all, men here argued that the primary,
    if not the only, explanation is biological. These men believe that women's brains
    are simply inferior (on average) in the mental processing required to play chess.

    I expect that sexist men will keep rejecting scientific findings that deny or diminish
    any gendered differences in brains.

    The several 'thumbs down' already to my original post might express popular male
    rejection here of the belief that gender differences in the brain are insignificant at most.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Feb '19 20:29
    @Duchess64
    As a matter of note, I never thumbed down any of your posts.
  8. Behind the scenes
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    25 Feb '19 20:33
    @Duchess64

    Mchill seems ignorant of the continuing trend in scientific research or thought.
    In fact, (male) scientists used to believe that there were more gendered differences in brains.


    Duchess, I'm aware throwing insults at me gives you emotional gratification, but the best scientific minds on the planet agree that their understanding of the human brain is still in its infancy, and all the insults in the world won't change this. If it will make you feel better though, I'll have the room you're in filled with breakable objects, so you can take out your frustrations on those.

    🙂
  9. Zugzwang
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    25 Feb '19 20:393 edits
    @mchill said
    @Duchess64

    Mchill seems ignorant of the continuing trend in scientific research or thought.
    In fact, (male) scientists used to believe that there were more gendered differences in brains.


    Duchess, I'm aware throwing insults at me gives you emotional gratification, but the best scientific minds on the planet agree that their understanding of the human brain is still ...[text shortened]... room you're in filled with breakable objects, so you can take out your frustrations on those.

    🙂
    Many men find it too painful to accept any criticism, however accurate, from a woman.
    Mchill's typical defensiveness (at best) may reveal (again) his insecurity.
    As usual, Mchill finds it too painful to admit to me that he could be wrong about anything.

    "I would suggest however there are far more differences between the brains of
    males and females than have been discovered."
    --Mchill

    Again, the modern trend in scientific research is to find fewer, NOT more, gendered differences in brains.
    Why does, apart from his bias, Mchill imagine that this trend will become completely reversed?

    Back in the 19th century, scientists (all men at that time) believed that men and women
    must have extremely different brains--with male brains being obviously superior.
    This 'fact' was used to rationalize laws and policies designed to keep women dependent on men.
    The argument of female brain inferiority was used to oppose allowing women to vote.
    It was classic scientific sexism.

    I expect that sexist men will keep rejecting scientific findings that deny or diminish
    any gendered differences in brains.

    Would not Mchill have felt more comfortable with scientific opinions in the 19th century?
  10. Zugzwang
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    25 Feb '19 20:413 edits
    @sonhouse said
    @Duchess64
    As a matter of note, I never thumbed down any of your posts.
    And I did not 'thumb down' Sonhouse's post here. Someone else did.
    I suspect that some sexist men are rallying together, united in loathing of brain gender equality.
    I expect that sexist men will keep rejecting scientific findings that deny or diminish
    any gendered differences in brains.

    Sexism is endemic in this male-dominated forum.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    25 Feb '19 20:54
    @duchess64 said
    Mchill seems ignorant of the continuing trend in scientific research or thought.
    In fact, (male) scientists used to believe that there were more gendered differences in brains.

    Back in the 19th century, scientists (all men at that time) believed that men and women
    must have extremely different brains--with male brains being obviously superior.
    This 'fact' was used to ...[text shortened]... male brain inferiority was used to oppose allowing women to vote.
    It was classic scientific sexism.
    Inferior? No.

    Different? Yes.

    But not as different as some sexists believe.
  12. Zugzwang
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    25 Feb '19 21:074 edits
    @suzianne said
    Inferior? No.
    Different? Yes.
    But not as different as some sexists believe.
    Back in the 19th century, scientists (all men at that time) believed that men and women
    must have extremely different brains--with male brains being obviously superior.
    This 'fact' was used to rationalize laws and policies designed to keep women dependent on men.
    The argument of female brain inferiority was used to oppose allowing women to vote.
    It was classic scientific sexism.

    Many sexist men seem to feel deeply threatened by scientific findings that gendered
    differences in brains are much less important than they need to believe.
    I expect that sexist men will keep rejecting scientific findings that deny or diminish
    any gendered differences in brains.

    I suspect that scientific research eventually may conclude that there are minor
    differences on average between men's and women's brains (it's known that women's
    brains are smaller), but these differences are outweighed by environmental factors
    in affecting human lives.

    Perhaps there never will come a time when 50% of winners of Fields Medals are women,
    but that's no reason to discourage girls from studying mathematics or expecting
    that they can become good at it.

    As I recall, one male writer once argued that he doubted that I could be a woman
    because I know much more about aviation (military aviation at that) than a woman should.
    Modern women are no longer restricted to being flight attendants (appearing attractive).
    Women can and do fly and design aircraft.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
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    25 Feb '19 23:581 edit
    @Duchess64
    Was your interest in military aviation history just an extension of your field of history or did you have an interest in military aviation history first and that generated a larger interest in history in general?

    In the gender of brain issue, a man and a women getting sexually interested in each other, but their brains are essentially the same, where does the sexual interest come from?
  14. Zugzwang
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    26 Feb '19 00:281 edit
    @sonhouse said
    @Duchess64
    Was your interest in military aviation history just an extension of your field of history or did you have an interest in military aviation history first and that generated a larger interest in history in general?

    In the gender of brain issue, a man and a women getting sexually interested in each other, but their brains are essentially the same, where does the sexual interest come from?
    My extended family has at least several engineers, some of whom worked in aerospace.
    When I was growing up, I could look at an aeroplane model and be told that one
    of my relatives had worked on its design. So I suppose that I grew up with some
    familiarity around aviation.

    I was aware of some famous women in military aviation, such as Hanna Reitsch
    (German test pilot) and Lydia Litvak (Soviet fighter pilot). (By the way, the last pilot
    killed in the US Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP) during the Second World War
    was Hazel Ying Lee, a Chinese American.) If I had a role model, she would have
    been Melitta Schenk Gräfin von Stauffenberg (a German countess by marriage),
    who was both an aeronautical engineer and a test pilot. (She was 1/4 Jewish.)
    Flying an unarmed aircraft, she was shot down and killed in April 1945.

    On one occasion, I asked my parents to take me to an air show, but they declined.
    So I did not see an aircraft crash there, killing several people.

    For whatever it's worth, an instructor said that I had about average talent as a pilot in basic training.
    When I once sat in the cockpit of MiG-21, an instructor quipped that I (petite) was
    physically about the right size to be a fighter pilot.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Feb '19 09:28
    @duchess64 said
    Back in the 19th century, scientists (all men at that time) believed that men and women
    must have extremely different brains--with male brains being obviously superior.
    This 'fact' was used to rationalize laws and policies designed to keep women dependent on men.
    The argument of female brain inferiority was used to oppose allowing women to vote.
    It was classic scien ...[text shortened]... ricted to being flight attendants (appearing attractive).
    Women can and do fly and design aircraft.
    You're singing to the choir.
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