Originally posted by FabianFnasIn reality though, the numbers of people actually tortured by the Americans is minute compared to places like Yeman, Croatia, the prison camps of North Korea and the like.
You mean the American ones? I think they know it by now...
What scares me is that they don't know it at Guantánamo.
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
Originally posted by sonhouseBut does the fact that they are doing it over there justify doing it over here? Plus how many people do you have to torture before it becomes wrong?
In reality though, the numbers of people actually tortured by the Americans is minute compared to places like Yeman, Croatia, the prison camps of North Korea and the like.
Finally, it doesn't work, information gathered through torture is so unreliable as to be almost worthless.
Originally posted by googlefudgeSo you figure one person getting tortured in the US is worse than 1 million getting tortured in Yemen or N. Korea? What kind of logic is that?
But does the fact that they are doing it over there justify doing it over here? Plus how many people do you have to torture before it becomes wrong?
Finally, it doesn't work, information gathered through torture is so unreliable as to be almost worthless.
If you think a single torture is worth 20 words in a blog, shouldn't one million tortures be worth 20 million words of condemnation?
Originally posted by googlefudgeI heard that it worked on ol' Sharif; I understand that we only had to dunk him for about 35 seconds before he sang out some very "reliable", actionable intelligence.
But does the fact that they are doing it over there justify doing it over here? Plus how many people do you have to torture before it becomes wrong?
Finally, it doesn't work, information gathered through torture is so unreliable as to be almost worthless.
Originally posted by sonhouseI think that every governement allowing torture is uncivilized country. The rest is quantity.
So you figure one person getting tortured in the US is worse than 1 million getting tortured in Yemen or N. Korea? What kind of logic is that?
If you think a single torture is worth 20 words in a blog, shouldn't one million tortures be worth 20 million words of condemnation?
I don't buy the idea that 'a little torture is okay, but many is not'. Like saying 'slavery is okay if not too many'.
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasSo you would punish the perpetrators of one million tortures the same as the perpetrators of one torture?
I think that every governement allowing torture is uncivilized country. The rest is quantity.
I don't buy the idea that 'a little torture is okay, but many is not'. Like saying 'slavery is okay if not too many'.
You would see no difference in the inhumanity of the crimes?
How would you punish them? One month in jail for one torture and two months in jail for a million tortures? Don't you see there is a big difference to humanity as a whole from these two examples? Whole populations decimated, I think they call it genocide....
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't have the power to punish anyone.
So you would punish the perpetrators of one million tortures the same as the perpetrators of one torture?
You would see no difference in the inhumanity of the crimes?
How would you punish them? One month in jail for one torture and two months in jail for a million tortures? Don't you see there is a big difference to humanity as a whole from these two examples? Whole populations decimated, I think they call it genocide....
And how would I do that? By torture? 🙂
I still think that it shouldn't be okay to do a discusting thing, if you just do it a little.
"Yes, I raped her, but only once."
"Yes, I killed him, but only once."
"Yes, I torture him but only once."
...or... "In our proud democracy we torture people, but only a few. We are not like other dictatures, like Yemen, Northkorea, Iran, Iraq (under Saddam Hussein) and all other uncivilized countries, we in our country torture only a few."
We should tell our gouvernement that bad things is bad things even if our own country does it. Torture cannot ever be good even if it's being done in my country.
Originally posted by FabianFnasWhat about the rational of the torturers: I torture this one guy because he gives me highly useful information about a terrorist cell planning to plant a nuclear bomb in Amsterdam...
I don't have the power to punish anyone.
And how would I do that? By torture? 🙂
I still think that it shouldn't be okay to do a discusting thing, if you just do it a little.
"Yes, I raped her, but only once."
"Yes, I killed him, but only once."
"Yes, I torture him but only once."
...or... "In our proud democracy we torture people, but only a few ...[text shortened]... n country does it. Torture cannot ever be good even if it's being done in my country.
If such a thing were to be thwarted by one torture would you still say it's wrong? Without the torture, a city gets decimated. So which path would you prefer?
- Joined
- 31 May 06
- Moves
- 1795
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseAt no point did I say that one person in the USA getting tortured was worse than 1 million anywhere else. I was stating that torture is bad and can't be justified in any amount (my opinion, a judgment call based on my sence of morality and the available evidence).
So you figure one person getting tortured in the US is worse than 1 million getting tortured in Yemen or N. Korea? What kind of logic is that?
If you think a single torture is worth 20 words in a blog, shouldn't one million tortures be worth 20 million words of condemnation?
Also after misreading/interpreting my post and critizing my logic you go on to make the logicaly rediculus claim that if I wrote 20 words against a single torture (which isn't true but never mind) that I should write 20 million words of outrage against 1 million people being tortured elsewhere.
why? If I can make my point that torture is bad in (in any amount) in 20 words why use 20 million? It wont make the point any stronger.
Please try not to put words in my mouth. It's not me it makes look bad.
Edit: slght spelling changes made. Damn IE and it's lack of spell check (note: please don't tell me to use firefox, this isn't my pc)