Originally posted by sh76 http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14391410/elon-musk-tunnels-traffic-tesla-spacex-boring-company
[quote]Elon Musk thinks being stuck in traffic is “soul-destroying” — but, he has a solution: tunnels. Musk has been tweeting about tunnels for a month now, and even said he’s going to build a tunnel boring machine and start digging. In developed cities, we can’t ...[text shortened]... that, do massive traffic tunnels designed to bypass city centers to ease congestion make sense?
The freeways were supposed to end traffic congestion. Didn't work.
Los Angeles people drive because big business makes money from drivers, not because we "seem to want to drive".
BART in the Bay Area shuts down at night; it would be wonderful to be able to use it after a night out drinking. Same with Los Angeles.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung The freeways were supposed to end traffic congestion. Didn't work.
Los Angeles people drive because big business makes money from drivers, not because we "seem to want to drive".
BART in the Bay Area shuts down at night; it would be wonderful to be able to use it after a night out drinking. Same with Los Angeles.
[youtube Judge Doom's plot]OquSczOMkO4[/youtube]
What about a night of snorting coke off the stomachs of strippers?
Don't forget that segment of society!
They need mass transit just as much as anyone else.
Originally posted by AThousandYoung The freeways were supposed to end traffic congestion. Didn't work.
Los Angeles people drive because big business makes money from drivers, not because we "seem to want to drive".
BART in the Bay Area shuts down at night; it would be wonderful to be able to use it after a night out drinking. Same with Los Angeles.
[youtube Judge Doom's plot]OquSczOMkO4[/youtube]
Congestion happens because of bottlenecks. Traffic lights cause bottle necks. Lane reductions approaching urban areas produce bottlenecks. The speed of the system is governed by the slowest moving part of that system.
If and when driverless vehicles automatically zipper lanes, and turn every traffic light intersection into a virtual four leaf clover freeway interchange, vehicle throughput in cities/suburbs will dramatically increase and congestion will be a thing of the past.
All it takes is for vehicles to adjust to a greater following distance in highly traffic lighted areas such that they can pass one for one across equal volume intersections or in an appropriate crossing ratio for roads of a different traffic volume meeting at any particular intersection.
If every vehicle in a city precinct can be automated to the extent that they can surrender their will to the cities 'traffic brain' all this can be possible. The problem in my opinion is not that it will work, but the maintenance of a huge private fleet of vehicles to a level of calibration that will make all of this safe and reliable.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH What about a night of snorting coke off the stomachs of strippers?
Don't forget that segment of society!
They need mass transit just as much as anyone else.
Originally posted by sh76 I don't think that's the reason.
Public vs. private transit is (mostly) not about attitude or stigma. It's about incentives.
People in New York rely on public transit.Why? Because the costs of driving in Manhattan (traffic, parking, high stress driving) are high and the convenience of the public transit system is good. 98% of the people in my town drive ...[text shortened]... things, but ask any economist. The way to change behavior is to change the incentives equation.
I don't think that's the reason.
Well, YOU don't live on the west coast, because if you did, you'd see things differently.
Originally posted by Eladar It is a matter of convenience. For that to work your life would have to be within reach of mass transit.
That isn't going to be happening on the West coast in my lifetime.
In Oxford, England, where I live, there are several large car parks on the outskirts of the city under the name "Park and Ride". People commuting in from small towns and villages where public transport is scarce can park the car and change to a bus there. It means they don't have to compete over parking space in a crowded city centre; and since the bus can use designated bus lanes, they mostly avoid the heavy car traffic on the way in, so it's actually quicker despite the change.
I've never learnt to drive and don't miss it. For long distance journeys between cities, train is almost always quicker. In the city, bus is fine. Even if it's slightly slower, time spent on public transport isn't wasted time; it's time spent marking essays, catching up with Emails, or just reading a book. Whereas time spent behind the wheel is literally time frittered away.
Originally posted by Teinosuke In Oxford, England, where I live, there are several large car parks on the outskirts of the city under the name "Park and Ride". People commuting in from small towns and villages where public transport is scarce can park the car and change to a bus there. It means they don't have to compete over parking space in a crowded city centre; and since the bus can ...[text shortened]... s, or just reading a book. Whereas time spent behind the wheel is literally time frittered away.
Originally posted by kmax87 Congestion happens because of bottlenecks. Traffic lights cause bottle necks. Lane reductions approaching urban areas produce bottlenecks. The speed of the system is governed by the slowest moving part of that system.
If and when driverless vehicles automatically zipper lanes, and turn every traffic light intersection into a virtual four leaf clover freewa ...[text shortened]... rivate fleet of vehicles to a level of calibration that will make all of this safe and reliable.
It's all good news as far as driverless cars go, faster, smoother, safer, more economical travel, cars will be able to travel safely in excess of current speed limits and they'll be able to do it 6" off the bumper of the driverless car in front of them for big gains in efficiency by slip streaming. They'll automatically avoid congested roads, adjust speed to arrive at traffic lights without stopping, maybe even be programmed to run red lights if safe to do so. The first big consumers will be organisations like Uber, where initial expense will be offset by running their cars 24/7.
Exciting times.
I'm looking forward to bullying them, cutting in front they will take non-road-rage evasive action giving you the right of way but it will eventually become increasingly difficult to operate human operated car. We're entering that age.
Originally posted by sh76 http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/25/14391410/elon-musk-tunnels-traffic-tesla-spacex-boring-company
[quote]Elon Musk thinks being stuck in traffic is “soul-destroying” — but, he has a solution: tunnels. Musk has been tweeting about tunnels for a month now, and even said he’s going to build a tunnel boring machine and start digging. In developed cities, we can’t ...[text shortened]... that, do massive traffic tunnels designed to bypass city centers to ease congestion make sense?
They work to a certain extent (take a look at Stuttgart).
But it's more a method to get cars out of the city centre than that it actually eases congestion.
The only practical way of tackling traffic jams is to make city centres car free zones. People have to use public transport then. And seemingly they're then more inclined to do a lot of the journey by public transport.
Originally posted by Wajoma It's all good news as far as driverless cars go, faster, smoother, safer, more economical travel, cars will be able to travel safely in excess of current speed limits and they'll be able to do it 6" off the bumper of the driverless car in front of them for big gains in efficiency by slip streaming. They'll automatically avoid congested roads, adjust speed to ...[text shortened]... ventually become increasingly difficult to operate human operated car. We're entering that age.
Isn't a self-driving car nothing but a private train?
Waste of money and resources.
Originally posted by Teinosuke In Oxford, England, where I live, there are several large car parks on the outskirts of the city under the name "Park and Ride". People commuting in from small towns and villages where public transport is scarce can park the car and change to a bus there. It means they don't have to compete over parking space in a crowded city centre; and since the bus can ...[text shortened]... s, or just reading a book. Whereas time spent behind the wheel is literally time frittered away.
You exist in high density living. Those people who live outside high density living and work on it transition transportation accordingly. One form of transportation for each environment.
Originally posted by Eladar You exist in high density living. Those people who live outside high density living and work on it transition transportation accordingly. One form of transportation for each environment.
Well, but that's exactly my point - almost everyone who lives in rural Oxfordshire has a car and uses it to get to Oxford. But the system is set up to enable them to minimise their car use, switching to buses when they get to the outskirts of the city.
Traffic tunnels versus public transit
27 Jan '17 19:031 edit
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