Originally posted by PhilodorA) Anybody can claim anything on the internet;
I notice that none of you armchair critics has responded to 'masscat's' post which indicates that he, unlike pompous humbugs like you, has actually been there in the firing line.
B) I did a bid in the USN;
C) There's this thing called the UCMJ that real soldiers have to know and obey.
Originally posted by no1marauderA. Yes, you do
A) Anybody can claim anything on the internet;
B) I did a bid in the USN;
C) There's this thing called the UCMJ that real soldiers have to know and obey.
B. Me too, BFD .. 6 yrs, 2 tours in Vietnam, mostly operating as a taxi service for Special Forces.
C. When it's life or death all you "have to" do is survive .. it's action and reaction and the only "rule" is to get back to the world alive.
Things happen .. innocent people die ... hell, MOSTLY innocent people die.
War really is hell but it also is unavoidable at times.
One day you wake up in a jungle with a gun in your hands .. you thought you were just going to drink and chase whores .. who's those guys over there?
Originally posted by sasquatch672good post. do you think these guys should be facing the death penalty? They went over there to serve their country and face death from Iraqi's, and our now in prison with the prospect of facing death from their own country
It's a brutally difficult issue. I can understand how, after a car bomb goes off and kills someone in your squad, you lose your mind for a few minutes. I also believe that if you volunteered, you did so knowing there was a possibility you yourself would encounter danger and you do your duty accepting that danger. It's an amazing paradox how not even ...[text shortened]... ry causes - the moral high ground. Without this, we have very little reason to fight.
I was not there, so I don’t know what happened, and I haven’t been in the military for over 40 years, but my experience was most people joined for a variety of reasons that had nothing to do with wanting to see combat. It was for other, personal, reasons, and if you found yourself in a combat situation, while you knew it was a possibility, it wasn’t what you enlisted for.
Most of you have only seen combat in the movies. The realities of combat different: mass confusion, noise, screaming, and fear. Fear like you’ve never experienced, shock at seeing your friends dead or screaming in pain maybe with limbs missing, spewing blood out of their mouth, blown to pieces, finding yourself covered with somebody’s blood, guts and s**t, or some unidentifiable “stuff”, etc. It’s worse when you don’t know who your enemy is; you see boogermen everywhere. Nobody wants to admit it, but experiencing fear to the point of crapping and pissing your pants isn't uncommon. You fight anyway because your life depends on it.
I will leave it to all you people that are wiser than me to figure out what to do with those involved in this incident. After all, I was just a dumb “grunt.”
Originally posted by sasquatch672They went to a guys house, took him out, shot him, threw him in a ditch and then planted a gun on him IF the allegations are true. Where is the "heat of the moment"? I fail to see why they should be treated any differently from any other murderers IF they are found guilty.
Masscat's right. I know how this is going to sound, but it's honest, if not necessarily true, so blast away all you want but it's how I feel. Alot of people in the military joined because it was the best way out of their hometowns. Alot of the military is made up of the disenfranchised economic underclass. It was true when I was in and it's still tr ...[text shortened]... ges of months of retrospection from an environment very different from theirs.
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Originally posted by no1marauderI have to agree with you totally, these are peace keeping troops, not troops 30 miles behind enemy lines fighting for their own survival.
They went to a guys house, took him out, shot him, threw him in a ditch and then planted a gun on him IF the allegations are true. Where is the "heat of the moment"? I fail to see why they should be treated any differently from any other murderers IF they are found guilty.
Originally posted by latex bishopI've never been over there and I'm not up to speed on the situation, so you'll have to forgive me for asking, but where exactly is the "front line?" Or is it like Viet Nam was where the barber that cut your hair, laughed & joked with you, and took you tip money during the day was one of the guys lobbing mortars into your barracks at night?
I have to agree with you totally, these are peace keeping troops, not troops 30 miles behind enemy lines fighting for their own survival.
Originally posted by jammer(C) When it's 'life or death' there's a law called self-defence and it's not murder. It will be up to the court to decide whether there's evidence that it was a 'life or death' situation, or whether a bunch of soldiers decided to knock on someone's door because they were angry about something and drag out an innocent victim. Try to not to make arguments that make an assumption one way or the other about the facts when we simply don't know which is the true version.
A. Yes, you do
B. Me too, BFD .. 6 yrs, 2 tours in Vietnam, mostly operating as a taxi service for Special Forces.
C. When it's life or death all you "have to" do is survive .. it's action and reaction and the only "rule" is to get back to the world alive.
Things happen .. innocent people die ... hell, MOSTLY innocent people die.
War really is hell ...[text shortened]... you thought you were just going to drink and chase whores .. who's those guys over there?
- orfeo, lawyer