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Debates Forum

  1. Standard membervivify
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    21 Feb '18 14:51
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/trump-orders-ban-gun-bump-stock-devices-180221080205867.html

    US President Donald Trump has called for a ban on bump stocks, a device that allows a semiautomatic rifle to fire at the rate of a machine gun.

    Last week's Florida school shooting - which killed at least 17 people, including 14 students - sparked renewed debate on gun control. Survivors of the shooting have made pleas for increased regulations.

    "If the president wants to come up to me and tell me to my face that it was a terrible tragedy and how it should never have happened and maintain telling us how nothing is going to be done about it," survivor Emma Gonzalez said at a speech at a gun control rally on Saturday.

    Trump has tweeted his support for increased background checks, saying both Republicans and Democrats should focus on the issue.

    The president also signed an order calling for US Attorney General Jeff Sessions to create a ban on "bump stocks", a modification that allows for increased shooting speed for assault-style weapons. A bump stock was used in the 2017 Las Vegas shooting that killed 58 people.

    "It took until now, four months later, for president Donald Trump to take action," Al Jazeera's Heidi Zhou-Castro, reporting from Washington DC, said.

    But gun safety advocates say it is only the bare minimum of what the government should do to prevent mass shootings.
  2. Standard membervivify
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    21 Feb '18 14:541 edit
    Of course, such a ban has to be passed through Congress; both houses are controlled by Republicans. What do you think the chances are that such a ban will actually take place?
  3. Joined
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    21 Feb '18 15:02
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Of course, such a ban has to be passed through Congress; both houses are controlled by Republicans. What do you think the chances are that such a ban will actually take place?
    0.
    Prove me wrong, i wouldn't mind.
    I wager they will at most dangle this for a while until they feel the public has forgot. And if they do vote on it, it's always a chance Trump vetoes it because he has the attention span of a goldfish. An NRA lobbyist could get him alone in a room and change his mind in 2 minutes.
  4. Joined
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    21 Feb '18 15:15
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    0.
    Prove me wrong, i wouldn't mind.
    I wager they will at most dangle this for a while until they feel the public has forgot. And if they do vote on it, it's always a chance Trump vetoes it because he has the attention span of a goldfish. An NRA lobbyist could get him alone in a room and change his mind in 2 minutes.
    Don’t insult goldfish like that.
  5. Subscriberkmax87
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    21 Feb '18 16:24
    Originally posted by @zahlanzi
    0.
    Prove me wrong, i wouldn't mind.
    I wager they will at most dangle this for a while until they feel the public has forgot. And if they do vote on it, it's always a chance Trump vetoes it because he has the attention span of a goldfish. An NRA lobbyist could get him alone in a room and change his mind in 2 minutes.
    And yet the President every reasonable person loves to hate could just swing it. I've noticed over the years that the Party that is supposed to be rock solid on an issue, is often the Party that will make a u-turn on a core issue and carry the crowd because it's their issue. Like Bush and the Patriot Act. Obama expanding the Drone program, so why not Trump starting the ball rolling on gun control?
  6. Subscriberkmax87
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    01 Mar '18 00:32
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    And yet the President every reasonable person loves to hate could just swing it. ..... Like Bush and the Patriot Act. Obama expanding the Drone program, so why not Trump starting the ball rolling on gun control?
    It seems I may have hit the nail on this sucker. The NYT is reporting that Trump wants to enact significant gun control/reform measures.

    As I observed, it's tended to be the side you least expect, that does the heavy lifting contrary to what they're known for. Bush and the Patriot Act. Obama and the bailouts and now it looks like Trump with gun control.
  7. Standard membervivify
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    01 Mar '18 01:111 edit
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    It seems I may have hit the nail on this sucker. The NYT is reporting that Trump wants to enact significant gun control/reform measures.

    As I observed, it's tended to be the side you least expect, that does the heavy lifting contrary to what they're known for. Bush and the Patriot Act. Obama and the bailouts and now it looks like Trump with gun control.
    I'm not entirely sure. He did nothing after the Vegas shooting; I can't help but be skeptical given that Trump finally chose to "do something" during an election year that could determine the balance of power in Congress.

    Part of me is worried Trump will do some bare minimum to boost his approval rating (like banning bump stocks) while not really changing or adding significant laws.

    If Trump passes a ban on bump stocks, conservatives will tout him as a hero and having done more than Obama. Then when Democrats bring up that more restrictions needs to be made, conservatives and Fox News will complain that no amount of gun control is enough for Democrats.... when in fact, no actual gun control has been made. Any minor achievement will be used by conservatives to delay future gun controls, because they will claim that they already did something when in fact, they barely did anything.

    But, if Trump can actually get some real gun control legislation passed, no matter what his reason is, it will be a good thing.
  8. Subscriberkmax87
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    01 Mar '18 03:481 edit
    Originally posted by @vivify
    I'm not entirely sure. He did nothing after the Vegas shooting; I can't help but be skeptical given that Trump finally chose to "do something" during an election year that could determine the balance of power in Congress.

    Part of me is worried Trump will do some bare minimum to boost his approval rating (like banning bump stocks) while not really chang ...[text shortened]... some real gun control legislation passed, no matter what his reason is, it will be a good thing.
    I think for the reasons you give, his popularity will get a boost, by finally showing himself to be the adult in the room on this issue. A majority of Americans support background checks and better screening of would be gun buyers. Trump may well be the only guy at this time, to convince Americans that this is sensible legislation that's good for everybody.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/us/politics/trump-gun-control.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

    Trump Stuns Lawmakers With Seeming Embrace of Gun Control
    By MICHAEL D. SHEAR FEB. 28, 2018

    WASHINGTON — President Trump stunned Republicans on live television Wednesday by embracing gun control and urging a group of lawmakers at the White House to resurrect gun safety legislation that has been opposed for years by the powerful National Rifle Association and the vast majority of his party.

    In a remarkable meeting, the president veered wildly from the N.R.A. playbook in front of giddy Democrats and stone-faced Republicans. He called for comprehensive gun control legislation that would expand background checks to weapons purchased at gun shows and on the internet, keep guns from mentally ill people, secure schools and restrict gun sales for some young adults. He even suggested a conversation on an assault weapons ban.

    At one point, Mr. Trump suggested that law enforcement authorities should have the power to seize guns from mentally ill people or others who could present a danger without first going to court. “I like taking the guns early,” he said, adding, “Take the guns first, go through due process second.”

    The declarations prompted a frantic series of calls from N.R.A. lobbyists to their allies on Capitol Hill and a statement from the group calling the ideas that Mr. Trump expressed “bad policy.” Republican lawmakers suggested to reporters that they remained opposed to gun control measures.....


    At this rate if GOP evangelicals give him their support because he will back their right to life agenda, and the Dems change their allegiance because he supports sensible gun control legislation, he will surely end up with a lock on 2020?!
  9. Standard membervivify
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    01 Mar '18 04:36
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    I think for the reasons you give, his popularity will get a boost, by finally showing himself to be the adult in the room on this issue. A majority of Americans support background checks and better screening of would be gun buyers. Trump may well be the only guy at this time, to convince Americans that this is sensible legislation that's good for everybody. ...[text shortened]... ecause he supports sensible gun control legislation, he will surely end up with a lock on 2020?!
    "I like taking the guns early,” he said, adding, “Take the guns first, go through due process second.”

    Holy...sh&t. That's literally something only Donald Trump could say and get away with.

    I've got to admit...I like this direction. Let's see how long it lasts.
  10. Standard memberSleepyguy
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    01 Mar '18 04:581 edit
    Like him or hate him (and I tend to do both at least once per day), these bipartisan live televised round tables with Trump and members of congress are a good thing. These do nothing govt barnacles are left with nowhere to hide in that situation, even if Trump babbles like a moron. He's making things happen, as bulls in China shops tend to do.
  11. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    01 Mar '18 07:05
    Originally posted by @sleepyguy
    Like him or hate him (and I tend to do both at least once per day), these bipartisan live televised round tables with Trump and members of congress are a good thing. These do nothing govt barnacles are left with nowhere to hide in that situation, even if Trump babbles like a moron. He's making things happen, as bulls in China shops tend to do.
    I like your analogy.
    But does anyone benefit from a bull in a China shop?
  12. Subscriberkmax87
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    01 Mar '18 07:10
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    I like your analogy.
    But does anyone benefit from a bull in a China shop?
    The vendor who is paid to replace all the broken ceramics and fine display cabinets?
  13. Joined
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    01 Mar '18 12:54
    heh look at this: YouTube&t=159
    trump said something reasonable and colbert panics
  14. Joined
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    01 Mar '18 13:26
    I've heard various ideas floating around.

    Two of the ideas was to increase the age to 21 to own a gun and the other was to disallow the mentally ill from owning fire arms.

    This brings to mind how the media and Dim party has presented Trump to the world as "unstable". Would Trump be allowed to own a gun if he has already been judged by the establishment to be unstable? Obviously, those who support him must also be mentally unstable and should also be forbidden to own guns as well. This would leave on the supporters of Hillary to be able to own guns.

    Then there is the age issue. So if the age should be raised to 21 to own a gun, how about raising the age to go to war to 21 and the age of voting to 21?

    Makes the same amount of sense to me.
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    01 Mar '18 14:022 edits
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I've heard various ideas floating around.

    Two of the ideas was to increase the age to 21 to own a gun and the other was to disallow the mentally ill from owning fire arms.

    This brings to mind how the media and Dim party has presented Trump to the world as "unstable". Would Trump be allowed to own a gun if he has already been judged by the establishmen ...[text shortened]... the age to go to war to 21 and the age of voting to 21?

    Makes the same amount of sense to me.
    "Then there is the age issue. So if the age should be raised to 21 to own a gun, how about raising the age to go to war to 21 and the age of voting to 21?

    Makes the same amount of sense to me."

    agree totally
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