24 Jul 20
The author of the following article has reported on social unrest in other countries over the years, though never personally experienced a gassing as bad as the one he received as a reporter on the streets of Portland these past few days.
https://news.yahoo.com/the-battle-of-portland-trumps-escalating-tactics-against-protestors-are-backfiring-in-oregon-200349636.html
Some of the highlights:
But there is little evidence the tactical escalation [by DHS] is working. The noisy show of force I witnessed Tuesday night left hundreds of people, including me, choking on tear gas. But federal officers have essentially been deployed for a photo op: less than 15 minutes after the skirmish began, it was over. The federal officers retreated inside the courthouse, surrendering the ground they had just taken back to jeering activists.
[...]
If Portland is any indication, the militarization is backfiring, turning a movement that even a week ago was drawing only a few hundred protesters into one that now draws thousands every night.
Enter the mothers...
[T]he protests are numerically dominated by young BLM activists and contingents like the Wall of Moms, which began last Saturday night with about 100 mothers forming a human barrier between BLM protesters and police. By Tuesday night the “Mom Wall” had grown to almost a thousand women dressed in yellow and clutching sunflowers beneath their helmets and goggles.
Why send in an anonymous federal goon squad to confront civilians on the streets? Justifications were conjured up by the Feds, but...
...when DHS produced a timeline of “rampant long-lasting violence” to justify its deployment, the list was mostly acts of graffiti.
The city is not on fire or descending into anarchy by any stretch, notwithstanding the manically repetitive screechings to the contrary by certain luminaries on this very forum...
In reality, the protests occupy an area of just two to four square blocks, with little effect on the rest of Portland, already a ghost town due to Oregon’s strict lockdown procedures against COVID-19. Black Lives Matter and antiracism protests were already routine in the city, and traffic flowed normally just a block from the teargassing I witnessed. Even as protests surged toward the front of the federal courthouse, I found the street behind it completely empty.
Emphasis mine. And this statement is corroborated by live video footage from the city. The Portland metropolitan area has 2.4 million inhabitants, and the protests are confined to a few blocks.
The city is fine, though the pandemic is hurting it like it's hurting all cities. If only Trump felt as much urgency to contain a virus that has already killed nearly 150,000 US citizens as he apparently feels is called for to contain living citizens demonstrating for social justice.
The demonstrators are still there in Portland, of course, because the local powers that be are still not meaningfully addressing valid concerns about police brutality and other injustices.
24 Jul 20
The banana republic of trumpistan.
Even their gestapo suck peanuts.
It’s like crossing Hitler with a failed experiment from Auschwitz; like splicing Stalin’s genes with a low level mongoloid; like having a T-rex raped by an otter... and then having them blindfolded, dropped from a Uboat above the Atlantic and forced to draw up plans for a dictatorship using a feather sticking from their arses.
And no matter how offensive you may deem this post, it’s nothing compared to being abducted by unidentifiable troops in white vans.
I love it!
24 Jul 20
@shavixmir
We just have to cling to the hope there will be a major correction come November.
Trump is averaging over 10% behind Biden as we speak and the closer we get to November, the lower his numbers look.
The kicker is the effectiveness of the corrupt republican voter suppression and gerrymandering which means Biden has to win with AT LEAST a ten percent margin to overcome the suppression and gerrymandering by republicans.
@Soothfast
The Feds are charging 18 people with federal crimes like assault, arson etc. That means they got hold of them, took their stupid masks off, ID'd them, probably looked through their phones, and can now threaten them with real big boy jail unless they roll over on their terrorist pals. That's winning.
24 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saidCharges are one thing. Making them stick is another.
@Soothfast
The Feds are charging 18 people with federal crimes like assault, arson etc. That means they got hold of them, took their stupid masks off, ID'd them, probably looked through their phones, and can now threaten them with real big boy jail unless they roll over on their terrorist pals. That's winning.
Anyway, you're alluding to a fact that everyone already knows: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Large demonstrations may attract some bad actors!
24 Jul 20
@soothfast saidYes. Bad actors. That's what we're talking about. No one has a problem with peaceful protesters, as Trump's feds have themselves repeatedly stated. So to be clear you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
Charges are one thing. Making them stick is another.
Anyway, you're alluding to a fact that everyone already knows: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Large demonstrations may attract some bad actors!
25 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saidThe charges were apparently sooooooo serious all were released pending trial.
@Soothfast
The Feds are charging 18 people with federal crimes like assault, arson etc. That means they got hold of them, took their stupid masks off, ID'd them, probably looked through their phones, and can now threaten them with real big boy jail unless they roll over on their terrorist pals. That's winning.
Was bail even set?
25 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saidLMAO! 10 charged with failing to obey a lawful order, a few others with creating a disturbance or damaging property, 5 with assault. One charge of arson. https://katu.com/amp/news/local/18-people-people-face-federal-charges-in-connection-to-portland-protests#aoh=15956373716750&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
@Soothfast
The Feds are charging 18 people with federal crimes like assault, arson etc. That means they got hold of them, took their stupid masks off, ID'd them, probably looked through their phones, and can now threaten them with real big boy jail unless they roll over on their terrorist pals. That's winning.
If any get more than a few months, I'd be surprised - I wouldn't be shocked if all the charges resulted in, at most, probation.
So no, the massive Federal police riot isn't going to gut the nonexistent Central Committee of Antifa Commisars.
@sleepyguy saidI'm time and again astonished by the speed with which right-wingers discard their advocacy for states' rights whenever the occasion suits them (usually when a Republican is calling the shots).
Yes. Bad actors. That's what we're talking about. No one has a problem with peaceful protesters, as Trump's feds have themselves repeatedly stated. So to be clear you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
I've already made clear in my original post above that the unrest in the quite large city of Portland is confined to a few square blocks. The mayor does not want Trump's thugs on Portland's streets. Neither does the governor of Oregon. This is as states' rights as it gets: letting local people manage their own affairs as they see fit given the local situation. It's a founding principle of this federal republic.
For all the posturing about President Obama, here and everywhere, over his allegedly "ruling by decree" (i.e. issuing executive orders), where are the flag-hugging defenders of freedom now? Now, when a genuine authoritarian is deploying good squads in American cities that don't want them there. Obama never did that, and if you were anywhere within a lightyear of the exurbs of intellectual honesty, you know you would not approve if Obama did even a small fraction of the crap that Trump has perpetrated.
It's what I suspected all along, confirmed this year more than ever: right-wingers care only for power, and care nothing for anyone's freedoms except their own. That is the truth of the matter.
But when Trump nets all the protesters, all the undocumented immigrants, all the foreign students, all the kneeling athletes, all the homeless, all the union members, all the journalists, all the gays, all the Democrats, and all the liberals, guess who he'll go after next?
25 Jul 20
@soothfast saidThat was a yes or no question.
I'm time and again astonished by the speed with which right-wingers discard their advocacy for states' rights whenever the occasion suits them (usually when a Republican is calling the shots).
I've already made clear in my original post above that the unrest in the quite large city of Portland is confined to a few square blocks. The mayor does not want Trump's thugs o ...[text shortened]... e journalists, all the gays, all the Democrats, and all the liberals, guess who he'll go after next?
Do you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
25 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saiddo you agree that it's wrong to heat up fish in the common space microwave at work? It's a yes or no question and just as relevant as your disingenuous question.
That was a yes or no question.
Do you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
25 Jul 20
@sleepyguy saidIs anyone charged with "attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside"? I don't think so. There have been small fires set, including one at the entrance of the courthouse, that was put out in less than 10 minutes. One would think if you were truly trying to "burn down" a courthouse, you'd try a little harder than that.
Yes. Bad actors. That's what we're talking about. No one has a problem with peaceful protesters, as Trump's feds have themselves repeatedly stated. So to be clear you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
As to "assaulting police" that would depend on if the police assaulted you first.
This is now right wing political theater trying to distract from the original goals of the protests i.e. police reform which the overwhelming majority of Americans support to some misguided "law and order" campaign theme King Donald wants to sell to his loyal parrots. What has been accomplished is to make the protests even larger and for them to focus on the issue of federal invaders:
"At least 4,000 people poured Friday night into the city’s core. It was the largest crowd since early weeks of the protests that started 58 days ago."
The Feds decided to unleash their usual weaponry because some protesters were pushing on a fence:
"At 11 p.m., protesters’ actions by the fence brought tear gas from federal officers.
Several people had started to push the fence, which wavered to pressure unlike the two prior nights. A concrete barricade prevented the fence from fully toppling over. It was unclear if anything else happened to bring about the response by federal officers. The gas caught the thousands there off guard.
Federal officials used a loudspeaker to order people to stop tampering with the fence. A group of people did not stop. Federal officers released more gas and shot impact munitions, including pepper balls, toward the protesters on the front line.
Within 15 minutes, most of the crowd outside the Justice Center had either left or shifted toward the courthouse. Someone used a projector to display, “The fence is a lie,” onto the side of the Justice Center facing the courthouse.
Federal officers continued to release irritants and shoot projectiles toward the crowd from inside the building. Several protesters stayed near the front line and used leaf blowers to try to contain the gas near the courthouse.
Within minutes, a stream of federal officers emerged from the courthouse and staged directly next to the fence, at times shooting impact munitions at protesters feet away. Most people moved back several yards.
Many of the officers near the perimeter wore dark uniforms that said Homeland Security.
Officers mostly retreated inside the courthouse by 11:25 p.m. in a cloud of gas.
Dozens of protesters quickly returned close to the fence, and many people started pushing it. Some people used an angle grinder to cut into it. After fireworks launched from the crowd exploded past the fence, federal officers streamed out just after 11:30 p.m.
Federal officers defended one side of the fence, and frontline protesters tried to hold ground from the other side.
Officers remained outside even after the tension lowered. The face off continued past midnight. Several people played drums, and the crowd chanted, “No justice, no police!” At least 1,000 people remained in the area."
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/protesters-in-portland-prepared-friday-for-looming-confrontation-with-federal-officers-live-updates.html
It is reasonably obvious that this type of Federal presence and tactics is doing nothing but inflame the situation. An administration not composed of politically minded idiots (admittedly rare in American politics esp. every 4 years) would realize this and start withdrawing the excess Federal police.
25 Jul 20
2 edits
@sleepyguy saidOf course those are bad things. Of course such people should be apprehended and charged. But not by unidentified quasi-military agents running around in un-licence-plated vans against the will of local authorities.
That was a yes or no question.
Do you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
Isn't exactly this sort of heavy-handed federal intervention the reasons the NRA claims citizens NEED weapons? To defend themselves against the government. The right are so hypocritical.
25 Jul 20
2 edits
@sleepyguy saidNo1 already addressed your "yes or no" question yesterday quite sufficiently.
That was a yes or no question.
Do you agree that attempting to burn down a federal courthouse with people inside, and assaulting police are bad things people should be arrested and punished for?
EDIT: In the article in my OP I seem to recall the author witnessed the alleged act of "arson." It sounds like it amounted to a small trash fire being set next to the building in question. A stone-walled building, mind you.
25 Jul 20
@Sleepyguy
So will you join the Trump SS if they ask you?
I don't suppose pesky items like the constitution means much to your type any more.