Trump was For Open Borders

Facts only, right Joe? With references. Ignore the rhetoric. I will not mention anything Trump said, only what he did.

Fact 1: He built a wall that didn't work [1]. In new barriers, it only added 49 miles. People just climb over it. There was a lot of huffing and puffing about this though eh? Didn't listen to experts. Doesn't do anything.

Fact 2: He failed to reform immigration policy in any substantive or meaningful way. Accomplishing this would have shifted what was happening under his presidency ('open borders' ) into a legal framework for immigration ('closed borders' ). The details are arguable, but regardless of details this line item on the to do list is obvious if you don't want to be seen as an open borders guy like Trump was. There were and still are lots of common sense approaches that are not merely rhetorical. He didn't even try. Not doing anything here is quite telling.

Fact 2b: The immigration policy that Trump did implement with the travel bans and what not reduced LEGAL immigration, not illegal immigration [2]. All fluff no flour.

Fact 3: He cut the budget for the e-Verify program. This one's self explanatory. Letting companies hire illegally creates a magnet for illegal immigration that no wall will stop.

Fact 4: He HIRED ILLEGALS at his own companies. This speaks a lot to his overall philosophy on the issue, as opposed to the diametrically-opposed rhetoric.

Fact 5: he oversaw the collapse of interior immigration enforcement. "...the Trump administration has only managed to remove 325,660 people from the interior of the United States during his entire term in office." [3] Compare that to more than 1.2 million under Obama's tenure. As a result of this failure, the population of illegal immigrants that went down under Obama remained about the same as when Trump took office [2].

As long as the demand for cheap labor exists, illegal immigration will not stop. Trump did nothing at all to stem the tide. Therefore, he is a big open borders guy.

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-border-wall-mexico-us-illegal-undocumented-immigrants-research-a8783721.html

[2] https://www.cato.org/blog/president-trump-reduced-legal-immigration-he-did-not-reduce-illegal-immigration

[3] https://www.cato.org/blog/interior-immigration-enforcement-has-collapsed-under-trump-lowest-level-george-w-bush

@wildgrass

I forgot one: The policies hurt the economy...

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/Trump-promised-action-on-immigration-and-15595224.php

>crickets<

@Suzianne
Should we assume the silence means everyone on this forum agrees?

@suzianne said
>crickets<

@wildgrass

My friend, we have talked before. Your bias is very strong. We argued about how
you presented the "FACTS" about the cost of an F-16 v. the cost of an F-35.
You said the F-16 was something nominal like $35 Million, and the F-16 you listed as $1.6 TRILLION, and when I brought up the error of your comparison method, you actually defended what you said and said it was Ok data - all to give a bad name to the deal for the F-35.

See up above where you essentially say Trump is to blame for the economy...?

Face it wildgrass, you have peddled FAKE FACTS
----------------------------------------


Edit to add:

I went to the F-35 thread to get this out. This is wildgrass' position on the cost of the F-35 v the cost of F-16:

@wildgrass said
$35 million x 48,571 =~ $1.7 trillion

He is saying the F-16 cost $35 million and the new F-35 is 48,571 times more expensive, at $1.7 TRILLION.

Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!?!?!?

@suzianne said
>crickets<

@earl-of-trumps said
@wildgrass

My friend, we have talked before. Your bias is very strong. We argued about how
you presented the "FACTS" about the cost of an F-16 v. the cost of an F-35.
You said the F-16 was something nominal like $135 Million, and the F-16 you listed as $1.6 TRILLION, and when I brought up the error of your comparison method, you actually defended what you said an ...[text shortened]... ntially say Trump is to blame for the economy...?

Face it wildgrass, you have peddled FAKE FACTS

@wildgrass said
Earl, we have a separate thread for the F-35. You know of course the trillion dollar figure referred to the cost of the program not the cost of purchasing a single jet. It is stated clearly in the other thread.

This thread is about trump's open borders policy. You are writing about what I "essentially say" but won't address what I actually wrote? Why not? What facts are fake? Results not rhetoric. Did he actually reduce illegal immigration?

@mott-the-hoople said
yes, Trump reduced illegal immigration...

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/

@wildgrass said
What am I missing Mott? All this data is from 2016.

@mott-the-hoople said
it did link to wrong article...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/22/key-facts-about-u-s-immigration-policies-and-bidens-proposed-changes/ft_2021-03-22_immigrationpolicies_03/

@wildgrass said
This one is refugee admissions. What about illegal immigration?

@mott-the-hoople said
semantics...since you made the absurd claim and Trump and the border, why dont you provide some numbers.

@wildgrass said
Really? Semantics? If we're discussing open borders, you're posting on refugees. People can come through our border illegally (open borders) or legally (closed borders). There's a legal process for refugees. Surely, if trump was a big closed borders guy there'd be some evidence of success in limiting illegal immigration right? Doesn't seem that way, though.

The numbers are in the OP references.