Typical GOP response to Obamacare

Originally posted by normbenign
So you say. I lived here all my life, have never been rich, and never had a gold plated UAW health plan, but have been relatively healthy, and never needed care that I couldn't get. All that without some over arching "plan" that made all my choices for me, or the illusion that it was all free.

That's a really nice story but like all of your anecdotes it does not refute the facts however uncomfortable you may be with them.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
That's a really nice story but like all of your anecdotes it does not refute the facts however uncomfortable you may be with them.

The notion that everyone fits neatly into some government "plan" is patent hogwash. Obama care has only increased the number of "covered" people by about 3%, and many "insureds" find that their care is less affordable due to high deductibles and copays.

Soviet style models were all the rage, but in the long term seem not to work as well as markets to sort out complex social problems.

Originally posted by normbenign
The notion that everyone fits neatly into some government "plan" is patent hogwash. Obama care has only increased the number of "covered" people by about 3%, and many "insureds" find that their care is less affordable due to high deductibles and copays.

Soviet style models were all the rage, but in the long term seem not to work as well as markets to sort out complex social problems.

The markets had been steadily increasing premiums, deductibles and co-pays for years before passage of the ACA (which has covered about a 1/3 of the previous uninsured and would have done more but for a faulty SCOTUS ruling concerning Medicaid expansion and the recalcitrance of most Republican governors to accept it in their States).

"Soviet" style nations like Japan, Germany, Singapore, etc. etc. etc. all have universal health coverage at lower overall cost and better effectiveness than the US' slapdash system.

Originally posted by no1marauder
The markets had been steadily increasing premiums, deductibles and co-pays for years before passage of the ACA (which has covered about a 1/3 of the previous uninsured and would have done more but for a faulty SCOTUS ruling concerning Medicaid expansion and the recalcitrance of most Republican governors to accept it in their States).

"Soviet" style na ...[text shortened]... sal health coverage at lower overall cost and better effectiveness than the US' slapdash system.

If Soviet style economics is so good with health care, then why not adopt it entirely in the whole scheme of things.

The issue is sharp. Do we entrust everything to government, or retain some personal freedom and the ability to choose our course in life, including medical care? Ultimately, it comes down to costs, and the argument is that some under a private system are left out due to affordability. However, experience under government run models with so called unlimited access show that costs soon exceed estimates, and limits are imposed.

You end up trading systems without creating any incentives for additional providers. The Soviets have given up on their economic model, and with good reasons. Others will to given time. The uncertainties of markets may seem "slapdash" to control freaks, but they tend to work better than when the market is ignored by control freaks.

Originally posted by normbenign
If Soviet style economics is so good with health care, then why not adopt it entirely in the whole scheme of things.

The issue is sharp. Do we entrust everything to government, or retain some personal freedom and the ability to choose our course in life, including medical care? Ultimately, it comes down to costs, and the argument is that some under a ...[text shortened]... control freaks, but they tend to work better than when the market is ignored by control freaks.

I put "Soviet" in quote for sarcastic purposes. If you really think that universal health care is only a Soviet idea, you are a fool.

Experiences with universal health care systems show that they are cheaper and more effective than the US model. Private markets are inefficient in health care because of demand inelasticity and information asymmetry as well as other reasons.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I put "Soviet" in quote for sarcastic purposes. If you really think that universal health care is only a Soviet idea, you are a fool.

Experiences with universal health care systems show that they are cheaper and more effective than the US model. Private markets are inefficient in health care because of demand inelasticity and information asymmetry as well as other reasons.

Yeh, I know, but Soviet style isn't even practiced by the Soviets any more. Most have abandoned it, and those that haven't will. There are not incentives, or not enough incentives in non market medical systems to get young people to invest time and money in training.

Government is less able to deal with in-elasticity and asymmetry than are markets. Government bureaucracies take years to sort out thing that markets do almost instantly.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Reagan a long time ago raged against Medicare as sure as ending "freedom" in the US.

It turns out that most people don't value the "freedom" to die of preventable diseases and treatable health conditions.

How "collectivist" of them.

States like MA are capable of their own health care systems.

Why not let them decide?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I put "Soviet" in quote for sarcastic purposes. If you really think that universal health care is only a Soviet idea, you are a fool.

Experiences with universal health care systems show that they are cheaper and more effective than the US model. Private markets are inefficient in health care because of demand inelasticity and information asymmetry as well as other reasons.

Speaking of the former USSR, I heard that is where Bernie Sanders spent his honeymoon.

Hilarious!

Originally posted by normbenign
Yeh, I know, but Soviet style isn't even practiced by the Soviets any more. Most have abandoned it, and those that haven't will. There are not incentives, or not enough incentives in non market medical systems to get young people to invest time and money in training.

Government is less able to deal with in-elasticity and asymmetry than are markets. Government bureaucracies take years to sort out thing that markets do almost instantly.

When do you expect that every rich industrialized nation aside from the USA will abandon (some variation of) universal health care coverage?

Originally posted by FishHead111
Instead of the complicated monstrosity of Obamacare, wouldn't it have been much simpler to come up with a government run insurance company that operated at zero profit and took a few dollars a month out of our paychecks?
The Affordable Care Act ain't so affordable because we still have to sign up with private life sucking companies making billions off premiums.

I'm STILL waiting for the GOP's plan!

Originally posted by normbenign
If Soviet style economics is so good with health care, then why not adopt it entirely in the whole scheme of things.

The issue is sharp. Do we entrust everything to government, or retain some personal freedom and the ability to choose our course in life, including medical care? Ultimately, it comes down to costs, and the argument is that some under a ...[text shortened]... control freaks, but they tend to work better than when the market is ignored by control freaks.

I'm STILL waiting for the GOP's plan!

Originally posted by Eladar
Anything that takes the cost of insurance off of big business and shifts it to the worker is good for Libtards and Conservatards, or as Michael Savage says: Republicrats.

I'm STILL waiting for the GOP's plan!

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
When do you expect that every rich industrialized nation aside from the USA will abandon (some variation of) universal health care coverage?

How long before the whole planet is a socialist gulag? Everyone gets free health care, but nobody has anymore choices about anything.

Originally posted by normbenign
How long before the whole planet is a socialist gulag? Everyone gets free health care, but nobody has anymore choices about anything.

The US incarcerates people at 3 1/2 times the rate of those European "socialist gulags".https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/07/07/yes-u-s-locks-people-up-at-a-higher-rate-than-any-other-country/

Originally posted by normbenign
How long before the whole planet is a socialist gulag? Everyone gets free health care, but nobody has anymore choices about anything.

I expect the Red Brigades to come abduct me and take me to knee surgery any day now.

Will you answer the question or not?