Originally posted by SahuaroI think you will find that if you look around the world, what you believe would happen is not what would actually happen. Countries with social welfare, do not collapse.
Many people would simply stop working if they didn't have to, and the country would collapse. Do you think people really enjoy cleaning up dog poop, collecting garbage, making burgers, being a waitress, or most low paying jobs? Really any job that makes a person unhappy. People (tend to) work because they have to, and so many make a goal of finding a job they like or at least can live with. If they no longer have to work, they won't.
What does tend to happen is that 'low paying jobs' become better paying jobs. Is this really a bad thing?
In fact, if read in a certain way, your post could be interpreted as you wishing to continue exploiting people as much as possible ie keep them poor so they will work for practically nothing.
Challenge your intuition with actual statistics. Look around for examples of places collapsing due to social welfare. If you can't find them, change your views. If you can find them please present them here and you may change my views.
Originally posted by SahuaroYou sound like my wife. She was also not in favor of this idea. we have kids and they have to earn an allowance by doing chores, as you say. What they don't have to worry about, because we do it for them, is food, clothing, housing, healthcare. None of that comes out of their allowance.
I'm "liberal" in some matters, but apparently not this one. I agree that people need housing, educational training, medical needs met, and life skills training. I do not believe in just regularly handing people money for no reason, not even children. Allowance, at any age, should be in exchange for work. How many young adults won't "leave the nest" becau ...[text shortened]... finding a job they like or at least can live with. If they no longer have to work, they won't.
Much of what I've read proposes a basic income in the US of around $1800 a month. It would replace programs like welfare, food stamps, social security all those would become one program. Everyone, regardless of income, would receive a check every month (hence the term universal).
To your last point, I think people would work menial jobs for the same reason teenagers do, spending money. Nobody's getting rich on $20000. That covers necessities and that's about it. Some would be content to milk the system (just like now) but most would want to improve their lives (just like now).
Originally posted by HarrisonBergeron
You sound like my wife. She was also not in favor of this idea. we have kids and they have to earn an allowance by doing chores, as you say. What they don't have to worry about, because we do it for them, is food, clothing, housing, healthcare. None of that comes out of their allowance.
Much of what I've read proposes a basic income in the ...[text shortened]... t to milk the system (just like now) but most would want to improve their lives (just like now).
Much of what I've read proposes a basic income in the US of around $1800 a month. It would replace programs like welfare, food stamps, social security all those would become one program. Everyone, regardless of income, would receive a check every month (hence the term universal).
This is so unrealistic it is a waste of time and even counterproductive to talk about.
Originally posted by JS357This forum would be pretty quiet if all the politically unrealistic proposals were never discussed.Much of what I've read proposes a basic income in the US of around $1800 a month. It would replace programs like welfare, food stamps, social security all those would become one program. Everyone, regardless of income, would receive a check every month (hence the term universal).
This is so unrealistic it is a waste of time and even counterproductive to talk about.
1 edit
Originally posted by TeinosukeIts complicated. I believe fuel and electronics are more expensive here, and even more in Zambia. Food is possibly cheapest here, but I am not sure of that.
How does the cost of living compare?
Accommodation is different, so it can be hard to judge, but generally it costs more in SA than Zambia and the opportunities for cheap accommodation are fewer.
However, moving from Zambia to SA made me significantly better off overall.
I am fairly sure that if I moved to the US and earned US of around $1800 a month, I would be better off than I am now - especially if I was not working because then I would have the freedom of choosing where to live and could find reasonably cheap accommodation.
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadI found an interesting site:
Its complicated. I believe fuel and electronics are more expensive here, and even more in Zambia. Food is possibly cheapest here, but I am not sure of that.
Accommodation is different, so it can be hard to judge, but generally it costs more in SA than Zambia and the opportunities for cheap accommodation are fewer.
However, moving from Zambia to SA mad ...[text shortened]... would have the freedom of choosing where to live and could find reasonably cheap accommodation.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries.jsp
It appears that it is significantly cheaper living in Zambia than the US, unless you decide to buy a pair of jeans!
Comparing the US and South Africa, it seems that overall the cost of living is 40% lower in the latter.
Originally posted by SoothfastI don't see that at all! What figures were you looking at? I see somethings are cheaper in one country and others in the other country, there is no clear winner. I believe basic foods are cheaper in Zambia, and luxuries more expensive. Fuel is more in Zambia, but electricity is cheaper (we have hydroelectric power). Cars also cost more in Zambia.
It appears that it is significantly cheaper living in Zambia than the US, unless you decide to buy a pair of jeans!
I see South Africa is generally cheaper than Zambia on food.
Originally posted by SoothfastI don't think you can actually make that judgement based on the figures given. I think cost of living variation depends quite heavily on which income bracket you are in.
Comparing the US and South Africa, it seems that overall the cost of living is 40% lower in the latter.
You also can't ignore quality of services. I currently have a higher cost of living than I had in Zambia, but that is because I have a higher income and therefore demand higher quality services. (Better internet, better housing, better schooling, etc).
Originally posted by twhiteheadRegardless, unless you enjoy being trailer trash in the land of Dixie and can make shoes out of ping-pong paddles nicked from the local YMCA, you'll find yourself hard put to live decently on $1800 a month in the US.
I don't think you can actually make that judgement based on the figures given. I think cost of living variation depends quite heavily on which income bracket you are in.
You also can't ignore quality of services. I currently have a higher cost of living than I had in Zambia, but that is because I have a higher income and therefore demand higher quality services. (Better internet, better housing, better schooling, etc).
Originally posted by SoothfastI am always amazed at judgements made by people about the standards of living which are all right with the people living them.
Regardless, unless you enjoy being trailer trash in the land of Dixie and can make shoes out of ping-pong paddles nicked from the local YMCA, you'll find yourself hard put to live decently on $1800 a month in the US.
Originally posted by SoothfastI am fairly sure I would enjoy a higher standard of living than I do now. If that is 'trailer trash' to you, then so be it.
Regardless, unless you enjoy being trailer trash in the land of Dixie and can make shoes out of ping-pong paddles nicked from the local YMCA, you'll find yourself hard put to live decently on $1800 a month in the US.
You probably just don't realize just how good you have it.
Prior to moving to South Africa, I met lots of people who said much as you do now, ie that the cost of living would be much higher and I wouldn't be that much better off etc.
I moved here and found that many things were in fact cheaper, and I because I earn more could enjoy a significantly higher standard of living.