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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 01:29
    Why?
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Apr '10 01:32
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Why?
    Because it's a democracy that has been threatened with extinction at every moment since its inception by its sometimes brutal neighbor.

    Because the people of Taiwan don't want to live under Chinese sovereignty and shouldn't be forced to do so against their will.

    Why not?
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    11 Apr '10 01:40
    Originally posted by sh76
    Because it's a democracy that has been threatened with extinction at every moment since its inception by its sometimes brutal neighbor.

    Because the people of Taiwan don't want to live under Chinese sovereignty and shouldn't be forced to do so against their will.

    Why not?
    re: the rationale: Ditto, allowing for different proper nouns, longitude and latitude, and whatnot, for why the U.S. 'protected' murdering dictatorships and helped them to repress millions of people all around the world for most of the 20thC.

    Er... no. Wait a sec..
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 01:45
    Originally posted by sh76
    Because it's a democracy that has been threatened with extinction at every moment since its inception by its sometimes brutal neighbor.

    Because the people of Taiwan don't want to live under Chinese sovereignty and shouldn't be forced to do so against their will.

    Why not?
    Why not?

    Because it's military adventurism abroad supporting one side of a civil war on the other side of the planet.
  5. 11 Apr '10 02:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    re: the rationale: Ditto, allowing for different proper nouns, longitude and latitude, and whatnot, for why the U.S. 'protected' murdering dictatorships and helped them to repress millions of people all around the world for most of the 20thC.

    Er... no. Wait a sec..
    oh...my....God....you....just ....can't.... help..... it...... can you?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Apr '10 02:34
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Why not?

    Because it's military adventurism abroad supporting one side of a civil war on the other side of the planet.
    How is it military adventurism?

    What has the US done militarily to protect Taiwan? Implying to China that if they invade Taiwan they'll have to deal with us too is not exactly military adventurism.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 02:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    How is it military adventurism?

    What has the US done militarily to protect Taiwan? Implying to China that if they invade Taiwan they'll have to deal with us too is not exactly military adventurism.
    GWB: We will do anything it takes to protect Taiwan.

    Then there's the Formosa Resolution of 1955...

    These are not implications.
  8. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    11 Apr '10 02:39
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    oh...my....God....you....just ....can't.... help..... it...... can you?
    Well presumably you just can't help what you support or condone or are not apologetic for.

    sh76's comment was fair enough. But without the context of the abject and chronic hypocrisy involved, it tends to float a little freely without heft.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    11 Apr '10 02:44
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    GWB: We will do anything it takes to protect Taiwan.

    Then there's the Formosa Resolution of 1955...

    These are not implications.
    Okay; I'll rephrase.

    Stating to China that if they invade Taiwan they'll have to deal with us too is not exactly military adventurism.
  10. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 03:03
    Originally posted by sh76
    Okay; I'll rephrase.

    Stating to China that if they invade Taiwan they'll have to deal with us too is not exactly military adventurism.
    Even in light of the fact that Taiwan is not a nation?
  11. 11 Apr '10 04:56
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Even in light of the fact that Taiwan is not a nation?
    How is Taiwan not a nation?
  12. 11 Apr '10 04:57
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Why?
    Domino theory.

    Madame Chiang Kai-Shek.

    Bulwark against communism.

    Bulwark against PRC hegemony.
  13. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    11 Apr '10 06:28
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Why?
    The US backed the Kuomintang side in the Chinese civil war, agreed by the 1970's that the PRC had won, but then held out for pretty steep conditions for the final reconciliation.

    It requires a lot of US effort and determination to maintain this position. Something will eventually have to give.

    ===

    Quote from JAMES C. P. CHANG, Harvard University:

    "First, the U.S. acknowledges that there is one China; however, how to define and realize that is best left to the two sides of the Strait on a mutually acceptable basis.

    Second, Washington encourages the cross-strait dialogue but will remain even-handed and will not apply pressure or mediation to either side. Because Taiwan is a
    democracy, any arrangements between the two sides will have to be acceptable to the people of Taiwan.

    Third, the U.S. insists that the Taiwan issue be resolved peacefully. The U.S. would
    regard hostile action against Taiwan as a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific and a as matter of grave concern.

    The fourth element of U.S. policy towards Taiwan is that, in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act, the U.S. will provide defense articles and services necessary for Taiwan to maintain a sufficient ability to defend itself.

    The fifth element regards Taiwan’s international space: in recognition of Taiwan’s importance role in international issues, the U.S. will support Taiwan’s membership where statehood is not a prerequisite, and will support opportunities for Taiwan’s voice to be heard in organizations where its membership is not possible."
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 06:59
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    How is Taiwan not a nation?
    There's only one China. That's the US official position.
  15. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    11 Apr '10 07:01
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    Domino theory.

    Madame Chiang Kai-Shek.

    Bulwark against communism.

    Bulwark against PRC hegemony.
    The Cold War is over.