20 Feb 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeAre you really into relics and stuff? I mean, do you really
Thanks for the link. Indeed interesting.
believe that St Paul was buried here? How did you feel
when St Peter's tomb was empty or when the Shroud of
Turin turned out to be a medieval creation?
I've heard it said that if everyone took the 'relics' of the
'True Cross' they would have enough wood to build a church.
Don't you concern yourself that when people get overly
concerned about relics that they are approaching pagan
idol worship?
Nemesio
20 Feb 05
Originally posted by NemesioThe Shroud of Turin is still under intense investigation. It is widely accepted that the piece of cloth extracted was from a re-stitched piece added because of a fire in the Middle Ages. Biologists have found signs of a very rare plant on the shroud that is only found in an area around Jerusalem and dates from the 1st century.
Are you really into relics and stuff? I mean, do you really
believe that St Paul was buried here? How did you feel
when St Peter's tomb was empty or when the Shroud of
Turin turned out to be a medieval creation?
I've heard it said that if everyone took the 'relics' of the
'True Cross' they would have enough wood to build a church.
Don't y ...[text shortened]... ple get overly
concerned about relics that they are approaching pagan
idol worship?
Nemesio
There is pressure for the Vatican to allow more testing.
20 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DarfiusWow. I didn't know this. Here is a recent article
It is widely accepted that the piece of cloth extracted was from a re-stitched piece added because of a fire in the Middle Ages.
from three weeks ago.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4210369.stm
Good call; thanks for the info.
Nemesio
Edit: note that the dating is pretty imprecise,
dating the cloth between 1300-3000 years old.
It's not as definitive as your 1st-century plant
claim, but it doesn't rule that out either.
20 Feb 05
2 edits
Originally posted by NemesioNemesio: "I mean, do you really believe that St Paul was buried here?
Are you really into relics and stuff? I mean, do you really
believe that St Paul was buried here? How did you feel
when St Peter's tomb was empty or when the Shroud of
Turin turned out to be a medieval creation?
I've heard it sai ...[text shortened]... t relics that they are approaching pagan
idol worship?
Nemesio
I don't know. I leave those things to the experts.
Nemesio: "Are you really into relics and stuff? "
Not really, I regard these things as interesting but not essential at all.
Let's not get too worried here. If archeologists claim they have found St Paul's grave, they are perfectly welcome to announce this to the world. Undoubtedly a scientific discussion will follow the announcement. This is an interesting event and nothing to get upset or worried about in my view.
As far as the Shroud of Turin is concerned. It is again an interesting item for archeologists and historians. If it turns out to be a, say, sixteenth century product I will not be surprised at all and to be honest I couldn't care less. It is not essential for the Roman Catholic faith. It's just one of those things, a nice item for a discovery channel program and I'm sure Paul's grave will be an item too very soon, although a more important one.
20 Feb 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeAnd what would the implications be for the RC faith if the remains of Jesus were somehow found and verified?
Nemesio: "I mean, do you really believe that St Paul was buried here?
I don't know. I leave those things to the experts.
Nemesio: "Are you really into relics and stuff? "
Not really, I regard these things as interesting but not essential at all.
Let's not get too worried here. If archeologists claim they have found St Paul's grave, they are ...[text shortened]... m and I'm sure Paul's grave will be an item too very soon, although a more important one.
20 Feb 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeOk. Good. Thanks. I agree.
Nemesio: "I mean, do you really believe that St Paul was buried here?
I don't know. I leave those things to the experts.
Nemesio: "Are you really into relics and stuff? "
Not really, I regard these things as interesting but not essential at all.
Let's not get too worried here. If archeologists claim they have found St Paul's grave, they are ...[text shortened]... m and I'm sure Paul's grave will be an item too very soon, although a more important one.
Nemesio
20 Feb 05
Originally posted by royalchickenUm. Not just the RC tradition, I think, but all faith traditions which
And what would the implications be for the RC faith if the remains of Jesus were somehow found and verified?
rest their standard dogmatic beliefs on a literal bodily Resurrection
would be very upset.
Nemesio
20 Feb 05
2 edits
Originally posted by royalchickenAs Paul said somewhere, and I'm NOT quoting but describing using my own words: If the resurrection did not take place than our faith would become a simple collection of moral rules and teachings. In other words it would become .... I don't remember the word Paul used and I tried to find it but I can't.
And what would the implications be for the RC faith if the remains of Jesus were somehow found and verified?
To find the remains of Christ would rock and destroy the very fundament on which the Christian faith is built, the resurrection of Christ.
Maybe someone else knows the place where we can read the statement Paul made.
.... but maybe we would finally find out through genetic testing who His Father was ..... 😉
20 Feb 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI think you are thinking of I Corintheans 15:12-19 (ff.).
As Paul said somewhere, and I'm NOT quoting but describing using my own words: If the resurrection did not take place than our faith would become a simple collection of moral rules and teachings. In other words it would become .... I don't remember the word Paul used and I tried to find it but I can't.
Is the word you are thinking of 'in vain' (verse 14) or 'futile'
(verse 17)?
Nemesio
20 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by NemesioIndeed Nemesio.
I think you are thinking of I Corintheans 15:12-19 (ff.).
Is the word you are thinking of 'in vain' (verse 14) or 'futile'
(verse 17)?
Nemesio
From the King James version:
12": Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
"13": But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
"14": And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
"15": Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
"16": For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
"17": And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
If the resurrection did not take place then the what I call "inner logic" of the Christian faith would disappear. It would become sand sifting through your fingers without any real fundament or meaningful structure.