Is everybody following the referendum in Venuzuela?
Anyway, the rich (with support from 'you know who'😉 have demanded a referendum, because they don't like Chavez, the legally elected president of the country.
The referendum is about whether he is capable of running the country and whether the middle-classes are right that he is too authoritive.
Seemingly if you don't do as the middle classes wish you have no right to enjoy your presidency to it's fullest. On the other hand, I'm sure if he'd given them tax breaks and supported the US to the fullest, he'd be in a much more desirable position.
Anyway, it's 10:51 CET on this dreary monday morning in Holland...and it seems like he is going to win the referendum!
So, any bets how long it will take for the oppostion to call the referendum illegal, void or whatever?
From the BBC:
Many in the United States will be watching keenly as voters in Venezuela cast their ballots in Sunday's referendum which decides whether or not Hugo Chavez will continue as president.
Baseball fan Chavez often rails against US imperialism
They may have mixed feelings.
President Chavez's relationship with the US has been notoriously discordant but turmoil in Venezuela could also cause unwelcome disruption in oil supplies.
The Bush administration and the Venezuelan leader have struggled to co-exist.
The relationship has long been dogged by allegations of American interference in Venezuelan politics and complaints about US funding for opposition figures.
Those suspicions seemed confirmed when the US initially failed to condemn the short-lived military coup against President Chavez in 2002.
Mr Chavez at the time even accused the US of being instrumental in the coup, although Washington always denied it.
Change v stability
So as the Venezuelan leader faces a moment of political reckoning, some say Washington is licking its lips.
The Bush administration is inherently opposed to President Chavez on both ideological and practical grounds, Mark Weisbrot of the Centre for Economic and Policy Research believes.
Rising oil prices give oil-rich Venezuela added significance
"They don't like him because he's a populist, because he's also against some of the things they want for Latin America, like the Free Trade Area of the Americas, because of the oil price question, and because of his relationship with Cuba," said Mr Weisbrot.
"They add all these things up and feel they shouldn't have to tolerate such a government even if he's won seven elections in the last five years."
With oil prices high and global supplies facing uncertainties, Venezuela, a significant producer, has a new importance.
So some argue the Bush administration's enthusiasm for political change in Venezuela may be tempered by concern for stability - and an eagerness to avoid the sort of disruption which could push up petrol prices.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3567324.stm
The Bush administsration will not rest untill Shavez is gone or untill he has "changed his ways". On the other hand I do not understand Shavez's flirtations with Fidel Castro. I'm sure he could do without. He should seek support for his social change program in European countries. His overall political strategy of seeking political support from Fidel Castro is one that is provoking towards the United States. I consider this to be a major political mistake. Not very smart.
Originally posted by ivanhoeThat depends...
The Bush administsration will not rest untill Shavez is gone or untill he has "changed his ways". On the other hand I do not understand Shavez's flirtations with Fidel Castro. I'm sure he could do without. He should seek support for ...[text shortened]... . I consider this to be a major political mistake. Not very smart.
Why do the people in Venezuala keep voting for him?
If his links with castro help with that...
MÅ¥HÅRM
Originally posted by ivanhoeHe has political links with Castro because they have common interests. They're opposed to imperialism, they're for helping all the people of their countries get a better share of the wealth of their countries.
The Bush administsration will not rest untill Shavez is gone or untill he has "changed his ways". On the other hand I do not understand Shavez's flirtations with Fidel Castro. I'm sure he could do without. He should seek support for his social change program in European countries. His overall political strategy of seeking political support from Fidel ...[text shortened]... king towards the United States. I consider this to be a major political mistake. Not very smart.
58% of the poll. That'll do nicely.
It seems that, if Chavez lost the poll and he then lost the subsequent presidential election, the right-wing opposition was intending to privatise the oil companies. Which would mean that oill workers would go on strike. Which is 3million barrels a day not produced.
Originally posted by Redmike"He has political links with Castro because they have common interests. They're opposed to imperialism, they're for helping all the people of their countries get a better share of the wealth of their countries."
He has political links with Castro because they have common interests. They're opposed to imperialism, they're for helping all the people of their countries get a better share of the wealth of their countries.
58% of the poll. That'll d ...[text shortened]... would go on strike. Which is 3million barrels a day not produced.
Are you serious? Castro helping all the people of his country get a better share of the wealth?
How then do you explain the boatloads of Cubans crossing the 90 miles of ocean trying to get to Florida?
Originally posted by bekieke"Are you serious? Castro helping all the people of his country get a better share of the wealth?"
"He has political links with Castro because they have common interests. They're opposed to imperialism, they're for helping all the people of their countries get a better share of the wealth of their countries."
Are you serious? Castro helping all the people of his country get a better share of the wealth?
How then do you explain the boatloads of Cubans crossing the 90 miles of ocean trying to get to Florida?
Yep, in fact he's doing such a good job that those who want more than their "share of the wealth" are still fleeing the country.
Do some research, castro hasn't become one of the longest running and popular head of state in the world without good reason.
MÅ¥HÅRM
PS. Before launching into another clueless diatribe, consider starting another thread before hijacking this one to discuss Cuba.
Originally posted by bekiekeBoatloads? How many?
"He has political links with Castro because they have common interests. They're opposed to imperialism, they're for helping all the people of their countries get a better share of the wealth of their countries."
Are you serious? Castro helping all the people of his country get a better share of the wealth?
How then do you explain the boatloads of Cubans crossing the 90 miles of ocean trying to get to Florida?
There are about 2,500 applications for US citizenship accepted each year from Cubans. Hardly a deluge.
Originally posted by RedmikeI can attest to the boatloads of Cubans because I have been there to pluck them from the Caribbean, and a lot of these refugees are middleclass, some are professionals such as doctors who are sick of making $50.00 a month and barely able to support a family...lots of them are well prepared too, carrying a vast array of survival and medical equipment paid for by American relatives. They are spoiled too, foregoing the rice and beans that is standard refugee food and instead wanting what the crew is eating. The Haitians and Dominicans are less spoiled and will eat the rice and beans. The Cubans feel that they are special, and with Bush's support, they are....put one toe on American soil and they are a permanent resident. Castro is a joke, and his brother Raul is even worse...if the Cubans had the cajones, they would chuck both of these knuckleheads into the Florida Straits and open their country to tourism, Burger Kings, McDonalds, and KFC...just kidding with the last part there, but seriously, the Cubans are not starving in Cuba and they are a very literate people, and some of them actually do love Fidel...can't understan why though...guess one has to be a hard-core Commie to understand...yo, Shavixmere, can you explain this?
Boatloads? How many?
There are about 2,500 applications for US citizenship accepted each year from Cubans. Hardly a deluge.
Originally posted by chancremechanicThe 2500 is the US immigration stats. Sure, it's maybe 100 boatloads a year.
I can attest to the boatloads of Cubans because I have been there to pluck them from the Caribbean, and a lot of these refugees are middleclass, some are professionals such as doctors who are sick of making $50.00 a month and barely able to support a family...lots of them are well prepared too, carrying a vast array of survival and medical equipment ...[text shortened]... h...guess one has to be a hard-core Commie to understand...yo, Shavixmere, can you explain this?
Yes, they're mostly 'middle class'. Middle class and greedy.
Castro is supported by more of his people then Bush is of his.
The reason he's popular is because their revolution changed things for the better. Sure its not perfect - its not finished.
I understand that Cuba is also training doctors from the US. Poor kids, who're smart but haven't the money to study medicine in the US.
Originally posted by chancremechaniclol!
I can attest to the boatloads of Cubans because I have been there to pluck them from the Caribbean, and a lot of these refugees are middleclass, some are professionals such as doctors who are sick of making $50.00 a month and barely able to support a family...lots of them are well prepared too, carrying a vast array of survival and medical equipment ...[text shortened]... h...guess one has to be a hard-core Commie to understand...yo, Shavixmere, can you explain this?
You've noticed the difference in the refugees and yet you cant tell why the people left behind like castro?
I'll give you a clue, it doesn't have much to do with communism. You need to understand what the motivation for staying is.
MÅ¥HÅRM
The situation in Venezuela reminds me of the pre-Pinochet coup situation in Chile. If Shavez doesn't yield to the wishes of the United States he will be removed, one way or the other. If Shavez wants to serve his people he should recognise this unpleasant fact and explain to his people why certain things are not possible looking at the international situation and at the international power balance. Thát should be his political strategy instead of persuiing a hero role in fighting imperialism. He should go for what is possible nów and postpone other wishes that can be realised in the future with the help of progressive countries in the world, especially in Europe. The policy of seeking political support in Cuba is stupid if he and his political movement wants to survive and keep serving his people.
Can anybody explain why he really NEEDS the Cuba support ? Can he not be elected by his supporters without refering to Castro as some debater mentioned ?
Originally posted by chancremechanicRead the history of Cuba before the revolution. Then you'll get a rough idea why people aren't too displeased with Castro.
I can attest to the boatloads of Cubans because I have been there to pluck them from the Caribbean, and a lot of these refugees are middleclass, some are professionals such as doctors who are sick of making $50.00 a month and barely able to support a family...lots of them are well prepared too, carrying a vast array of survival and medical equipment ...[text shortened]... h...guess one has to be a hard-core Commie to understand...yo, Shavixmere, can you explain this?
Originally posted by ivanhoeMaybe it's because Castro has supplied the poor of Venuzuela with doctors (for oil).
The situation in Venezuela reminds me of the pre-Pinochet coup situation in Chile. If Shavez doesn't yield to the wishes of the United States he will be removed, one way or the other. If Shavez wants to serve his people he should recognise this unpleasant fact and explain to his people why certain things are not possible looking at the international situ ...[text shortened]... n he not be elected by his supporters without refering to Castro as some debater mentioned ?
The poor in Venuzuela hardly had medi-care and Cuba has got more doctors per head of the population than the US. Chavez made a deal with Castro to get the poor of his country some aid.
Nice and simple. Not much, but just enough to ruffle some capitalist feathers seemingly.