Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23110
    04 Jan '16 20:10
    I realize many who visit this forum are not interested in U.S. politics. However the concentration of extreme wealth in the U.S. affects economies outside of the U.S. ie the 2008 world wide recession/near depression.

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/robert-reich-ending-vicious-cycle-wealth-and-power?akid=13846.1449952.Qo0LK0&rd=1&src=newsletter1048335&t=8
  2. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    04 Jan '16 22:35
    Originally posted by Phranny
    I realize many who visit this forum are not interested in U.S. politics. However the concentration of extreme wealth in the U.S. affects economies outside of the U.S. ie the 2008 world wide recession/near depression.

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/robert-reich-ending-vicious-cycle-wealth-and-power?akid=13846.1449952.Qo0LK0&rd=1&src=newsletter1048335&t=8
    Who is to blame? Democrats or Republicans?
  3. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    04 Jan '16 22:39
    Originally posted by Phranny
    I realize many who visit this forum are not interested in U.S. politics. However the concentration of extreme wealth in the U.S. affects economies outside of the U.S. ie the 2008 world wide recession/near depression.

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/robert-reich-ending-vicious-cycle-wealth-and-power?akid=13846.1449952.Qo0LK0&rd=1&src=newsletter1048335&t=8
    This is a problem without a valid solution. If Gate's of Job's wealth increased, so did mine. If they lost big, chances are I was in a soup line, or working 90 hours a week to keep my living standard up. Preventing the rich from getting richer, almost invariably harms those at the bottom even more.
  4. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    04 Jan '16 22:40
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Who is to blame? Democrats or Republicans?
    Anyone who thinks that government can fix it.
  5. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    04 Jan '16 22:441 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Anyone who thinks that government can fix it.
    I'd say anyone who is willing to vote for an establishment type. This means any Democrat and most Republicans.
  6. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23110
    05 Jan '16 00:01
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Who is to blame? Democrats or Republicans?
    Both parties have been bought and sold. There are the outliers like Sanders and Trump. Of course, one could argue that Trump does represent those vested interests as he is a billionaire and is funding his own campaign.
  7. Joined
    23 Nov '11
    Moves
    23110
    05 Jan '16 00:03
    Originally posted by normbenign
    This is a problem without a valid solution. If Gate's of Job's wealth increased, so did mine. If they lost big, chances are I was in a soup line, or working 90 hours a week to keep my living standard up. Preventing the rich from getting richer, almost invariably harms those at the bottom even more.
    Actually you are wrong. A strong economy, a growing economy depends on a strong, growing middle class. The middle class in the U.S. is rapidly shrinking. Education, the key to entering the middle class, is being priced out of reach.
  8. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    05 Jan '16 00:22
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Anyone who thinks that government can fix it.
    Reich agrees with you. From the OP link:

    "But, as the reformers of the Progressive Era understood more than a century ago, no single president or any other politician can accomplish what’s needed because a system caught in the spiral of wealth and power cannot be reformed from within. It can be changed only by a mass movement of citizens pushing from the outside."
  9. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    05 Jan '16 00:29
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Actually you are wrong. A strong economy, a growing economy depends on a strong, growing middle class. The middle class in the U.S. is rapidly shrinking. Education, the key to entering the middle class, is being priced out of reach.
    I don't think so much education as much as a strong work ethic, ability to save for long term goals and an ability to get along well with others.

    If you can do that, then you have a good chance of doing well enough to be considered middle class. Of course many of these attributes helps in getting an education as well.
  10. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    05 Jan '16 01:02
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Actually you are wrong. A strong economy, a growing economy depends on a strong, growing middle class. The middle class in the U.S. is rapidly shrinking. Education, the key to entering the middle class, is being priced out of reach.
    A strong economy, a growing economy depends on a strong, growing middle class.

    Oft repeated, never supported. I believe that you're confusing cause and effect. Of course, that is always a difficult argument, the chicken or the egg.

    On education, in the US, more grades of education don't mean a more educated society. I consider myself, when I was working to be middle class, but what that means today, is not really defined.

    The US economy was strong in the past with a lot less formal education than is average today. My Dad finished 9th grade, and after that had to work the docks in Boston. My Mom had two years of college at BU, but never worked a day after marriage.

    I understand, that there are more technical jobs, requiring more education and training, but I see the under performance of K-12 education as the real boogieman. Lots of middle class careers still don't require college. They do require the capacity to learn, that is to read and communicate. Sadly, many graduate HS without those most meaningful skills. Twenty five years ago in my late forties, I saw kids at the Community College who simply were functionally illiterate. And it is worse today than then.

    The problem with the education mantra, is that it might work if the educational standards were real, and maintained. However, educational institutions, at every level, in order to produce better numbers, are diluting the curriculum, falsifying grades, and graduating people who didn't do the work. OK, over pricing college is part of it, but selling the public on the necessity of college enables that.
  11. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    05 Jan '16 02:09
    If you believe the key to having a healthy middle class is to work hard, save money wisely, and be personable, see and/or read "The Big Short." As the end, they reveal that the CDO (collateralized debt obligation) at the heart of it has been reborn under a new name. The pieces are falling into place for a repeat. And why not? The 2008 fall was not punished.
  12. The Catbird's Seat
    Joined
    21 Oct '06
    Moves
    2598
    05 Jan '16 18:301 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    If you believe the key to having a healthy middle class is to work hard, save money wisely, and be personable, see and/or read "The Big Short." As the end, they reveal that the CDO (collateralized debt obligation) at the heart of it has been reborn under a new name. The pieces are falling into place for a repeat. And why not? The 2008 fall was not punished.
    Yes, and we are sold that a useless college education is the key to growing the middle class. Then a kid graduates with a liberal arts degree, which qualifies him for what. Puts him at the front of the line at Walmart, and maybe not, because Walmart is smart enough to know he won't stay.

    Do you think the next crash will come before or after 2010?
  13. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    05 Jan '16 19:16
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Yes, and we are sold that a useless college education is the key to growing the middle class. Then a kid graduates with a liberal arts degree, which qualifies him for what. Puts him at the front of the line at Walmart, and maybe not, because Walmart is smart enough to know he won't stay.

    Do you think the next crash will come before or after 2010?
    My wife has her BA degree from a well regarded Liberal Arts college. She ran a computer systems validation project for two manufacturing facilities, and started her own company around the same processes and ran it successfully until her retirement Her talents and training in critical thinking and communication of ideas were essential to her success..

    What LA degrees do not do is get you hired right off the bat into a high-paid techie job. LA holders often have to start at a lower entry level job, but talent and a good work ethic will show themselves soon enough.
  14. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    05 Jan '16 19:28
    Originally posted by Phranny
    I realize many who visit this forum are not interested in U.S. politics. However the concentration of extreme wealth in the U.S. affects economies outside of the U.S. ie the 2008 world wide recession/near depression.

    http://www.alternet.org/economy/robert-reich-ending-vicious-cycle-wealth-and-power?akid=13846.1449952.Qo0LK0&rd=1&src=newsletter1048335&t=8
    So let me get this straight.

    Without the top 1%'ers that people rail against on this forum, the world would be in economic ruin? LMAO!

    More than likely you would also either be speaking Russian, Chinese, Arabic, or a combination thereof.
  15. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    05 Jan '16 23:321 edit
    What LA degrees do not do is get you hired right off the bat into a high-paid techie job. LA holders often have to start at a lower entry level job, but talent and a good work ethic will show themselves soon enough.

    In business this is true if you have a degree or not.
Back to Top