Originally posted by googlefudgeClearly, the dustbin man is socially useful, which is all that counts. Should his function become outmoded and he lose his job, though, his usefulness might well decrease to the point that he becomes dependent on benefits and stops looking for work, at which point his eligibility to vote would fall away. To counter this there could be a criterion of having once been useful, so the old man could embrace alcoholism whole-heartedly in the joyous knowledge that he could still vote (the bureaucrats would have a field day devising such a test--mouths watering at the prospect of all those committees alone).
is the dustbin man more or less socially usefull than the engineer?
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Originally posted by Bosse de Nagesee this is why it is better, and certainly easyer to say that you have the right to vote, untill you do something stupid/criminal enough to lose it.
Clearly, the dustbin man is socially useful, which is all that counts. Should his function become outmoded and he lose his job, though, his usefulness might well decrease to the point that he becomes dependent on benefits and stops looking for work, at which point his eligibility to vote would fall away. To counter this there could be a criterion of [ ...[text shortened]... field day devising such a test--mouths watering at the prospect of all those committees alone).
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Originally posted by VapataPerhaps, but I'm inclined to believe that a good education can't "be simply given". I believe it must be sought by each individual and that the resources for a good education are already available.
I got them from a speech. Although I don't remember the exact source, I remember the source being believable. If the educational system were to be reformed so as to pander to each person's academic strength, it would be more expensive. I believe that if people were to be simply given a good education, more people would see its value.
Originally posted by DraxusPerhaps, but huge amounts of money have been pumped into the educational system for many years. I am inclined to believe that huge amounts of money corrupt any system into which they are pumped.
I agree with you that those who want to be educated will educate themselves and those who wish to not be educated will resist any efforts to do so, but, pumping money into the school systems could potentially solve many problems. The quickest benefit would be more teachers and better teachers. Smaller class sizes combined with teachers that actually inspire ...[text shortened]... e special interests and agendas in that group. You do have a good point that it could happen.
Originally posted by VargI can not believe the arrogance of this discussion.
A lot of people seem to think that the right to vote is a fundamental human right - that everybody should have the vote, and any question of restricting votes is abhorrent.
Why is this the case?
Why cannot the right to vote be a privilage which can be taken away?
Or why cannot we have a test that must be passed before we can vote?
Let's face it - why should ...[text shortened]... s one of the failures of democracy - everyone gets a say, no matter who stupid or ill-informed.
In effect you are all saying the only people who should have the right to determine the rules under which they live are people like you.
To think like this is all three of closed, petty and narrow minded. Do you lot have no understanding of the concept that your view of the world is not the only one that could be considered valid?
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Originally posted by JokerFiveme, you just started a class war (and please note I would have that privilige under your rules). you have missed the fundemental problem with this. I allow the government to put restrictions on me and take away some of my money on the grounds that I have the vote, the ability to influence there desisions and if i don't like them (and obviousely a large number of other people feel the same way) I can vote them out (on both a local and national level). wars have been faught for this right. If you were to take this right away from me, why should I obay a government I have no say in? why should I give them my hard earned money when I have no voice in how it is to be used?
Voting PRIVILEDGES only for people that have a high school diploma, no criminal record, and a JOB.
That sounds about right.
Anybody gotta problem with that?
the answer is no reason other than there use of force. to wich I would obviousely eventually respond in kind. not having a say in govenment forces people to use other means, how many dustbin men would meet your criteria? and what happens when they go on strike? The right to vote in a free election (was in this country) Very hard fought for over centuries of history. we will not give it up. ever.
Your proposal, It sounds Very Very Wrong
Originally posted by WheelyNo.
I can not believe the arrogance of this discussion.
In effect you are all saying the only people who should have the right to determine the rules under which they live are people like you.
To think like this is all three of closed, petty and narrow minded. Do you lot have no understanding of the concept that your view of the world is not the only one that could be considered valid?
I'm sure most of the people who passed the test would not be like me.
Originally posted by WheelyI've said it before, but, that is the system that is the system we have. All of the important decisions are made by elected officials. In other words, neither you nor I vote on important national issues.
I can not believe the arrogance of this discussion.
In effect you are all saying the only people who should have the right to determine the rules under which they live are people like you.
To think like this is all three of closed, petty and narrow minded. Do you lot have no understanding of the concept that your view of the world is not the only one that could be considered valid?
It is better this way because the public will and has been shown to make poor decisions when it comes to national issues.
Originally posted by DraxusWell in that case nobody needs the vote.
I've said it before, but, that is the system that is the system we have. All of the important decisions are made by elected officials. In other words, neither you nor I vote on important national issues.
It is better this way because the public will and has been shown to make poor decisions when it comes to national issues.
For me, either everyone votes or nobody does.
Originally posted by DelmerI see what you are saying, and agree that large amounts of money usually breeds corruption. However here in Utah the school system receives a very small amount of money from the legislature. I don't know about the rest of the country.
Perhaps, but huge amounts of money have been pumped into the educational system for many years. I am inclined to believe that huge amounts of money corrupt any system into which they are pumped.