Has anybody ever heard of these?
I read an article in a Dutch paper yesterday and stumbled across this sickest of practises...
The BBC also has an article on a court case between one of these "Vulture funds" and Zambia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6365433.stm
Is there really no end to liberalism? Where does capitalism cross your morality?
I'm especially interested in our right-wing minded friends' opinions on this matter, because capitalism clashes with my morals on nearly every level, but this is completely outragious.
What are your thoughts?
Originally posted by shavixmirIt's not capitalism.
Has anybody ever heard of these?
I read an article in a Dutch paper yesterday and stumbled across this sickest of practises...
The BBC also has an article on a court case between one of these "Vulture funds" and Zambia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6365433.stm
Is there really no end to liberalism? Where does capitalism cross your morality?
...[text shortened]... morals on nearly every level, but this is completely outragious.
What are your thoughts?
Originally posted by WajomaThey're not breaking any laws. They're making money.
The guvamint of the day racking up debt and then assigning that debt to the collective is totally the opposite of capitaliam, which is a moral system based on individual rights.
These companies buy a countries debts. That's quite moral.
Then they ask for 4x the amouont back from the country.
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Originally posted by shavixmirWhere did the debt come from? Look to the root of the problem. Try to find a definition of capitalism that includes the guvamint putting you into debt whether you like it or not.
They're not breaking any laws. They're making money.
These companies buy a countries debts. That's quite moral.
Then they ask for 4x the amouont back from the country.
Granted, individuals borrowing money from loan sharks could be considered capitalism.
Originally posted by WajomaWhen you say "the collective", what exactly are you talking about - Zambian taxpayers, or the corporation that runs the vulture fund? Are you implying that the concept of incorporation is antithetical to capitalism?
The guvamint of the day racking up debt and then assigning that debt to the collective is totally the opposite of capitaliam, which is a moral system based on individual rights.
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Originally posted by AmauroteI am refering to (from #3 post) "The guvamint of the day racking up debt and then assigning that debt to the collective." i.e. the country, citizens
When you say "the collective", what exactly are you talking about - Zambian taxpayers, or the corporation that runs the vulture fund? Are you implying that the concept of incorporation is antithetical to capitalism?
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Originally posted by WajomaAll right - but in this case, the problem is precisely the fact that it hasn't: it's assigned it to a corporation legally endorsed in practice by capitalist nations.
I am refering to (from #3 post) "The guvamint of the day racking up debt and then assigning that debt to the collective." i.e. the country, citizens
Originally posted by AmauroteThe debt is to be recovered from a country and it's citizens.
All right - but in this case, the problem is precisely the fact that it hasn't: it's assigned it to a corporation legally endorsed in practice by capitalist nations.
My point is that the initial debt, the root cause of the problem is not an example of capitalism.
Originally posted by WajomaLet's take that as a given here, although I must say I only remember mild disapproval of sinking funds from Adam Smith: assuming that running a deficit is anticapitalist, are vulture fund corporations themselves compatible with or antithetical to capitalism?
The debt is to be recovered from a country and it's citizens.
My point is that the initial debt, the root cause of the problem is not an example of capitalism.
Originally posted by Amaurote"Let's take that as a given here..."
Let's take that as a given here, although I must say I only remember mild disapproval of sinking funds from Adam Smith: assuming that running a deficit is anticapitalist, are vulture fund corporations themselves compatible with or antithetical to capitalism?
No, I'll take that as a given anywhere, unless you can come up with a reputable definition of capitalism that states people can borrow money on your behalf whether you like it or not.
Compatible. They offer a service in assuming high risk debtors. High risks generally have high returns.
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Originally posted by WajomaThat doesn't contradict anything I've said. Thank you for clarifying. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in the moral purity of unapplied classical capitalism and every interest in its practical manifestations, which is why I oppose this phenomenon.
"Let's take that as a given here..."
No, I'll take that as a given anywhere, unless you can come up with a reputable definition of capitalism that states people can borrow money on your behalf whether you like it or not.
Compatible. They offer a service in assuming high risk debtors. High risks generally have high returns.
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Originally posted by AmauroteYes, I would also oppose money been borrowed on my behalf against my wishes in such an open ended contract as to allow the interest to climb out of control, the persons responsible for taking out such a loan should be held responsible.
That doesn't contradict anything I've said. Thank you for clarifying. Personally I have no interest whatsoever in the moral purity of unapplied classical capitalism and every interest in its practical application, which is why I oppose this phenomenon.
Edit: Obviously the incompetents shouldn't have had such power in the first place.