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07 Feb 22
@wildgrass saidYeah, I hear 'ya,,,,,,,,,,,
The article paints Mike Pence as a hero who saved 'Merica. All this is happening because Pence is running for president against TFG. Get your popcorn ready...
Better late than never, I suppose.
07 Feb 22
@wildgrass saidThe article says Mike Pence's "finest hour" is doing his job by certifying a legitimately won election where even he acknowledges that a VP doesn't have the power to overturn an election anyway.
The article paints Mike Pence as a hero who saved 'Merica. All this is happening because Pence is running for president against TFG. Get your popcorn ready...
This goes beyond setting a low bar. What a sad state American politics is in when someone is praised for doing their job while knowing they no ability to change the outcome.
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@vivify saidTrue, but, I'm sure you understand the
The article says Mike Pence's "finest hour" is doing his job by certifying a legitimately won election where even he acknowledges that a VP doesn't have the power to overturn an election anyway.
This goes beyond setting a low bar. What a sad state American politics is in when someone is praised for doing their job while knowing they no ability to change the outcome.
tremendous pressure he must be under.
@jimm619 saidYes, but he's no Liz Cheney in this regard.
True, but, I'm sure you understand the
tremendous pressure he must be under.
Pence no power to affect the outcome of the election and knew it. He's also been downplaying the Jan 6th riots and has still been supporting Trump, despite that same mob chanting to hang him. He doesn't get any respect from for certifying a valid transfer of power that would've continued with or without him.
Cheney, despite all the views of hers I disagree with, shines much brighter here, since voted to impeach Trump and has played a role in promoting Jan investigation. She put her career, reputation and even family and friends on the line. Pence also did but not to the same degree; despite disagreeing with Trump one *one* issue, he's still a Trump loyalist.
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07 Feb 22
@vivify saidI don't believe that Liz Cheney and I,
Yes, but he's no Liz Cheney in this regard.
Pence no power to affect the outcome of the election and knew it. He's also been downplaying the Jan 6th riots and has still been supporting Trump, despite that same mob chanting to hang him. He doesn't get any respect from for certifying a valid transfer of power that would've continued with or without him.
Cheney, despite ...[text shortened]... not to the same degree; despite disagreeing with Trump one *one* issue, he's still a Trump loyalist.
would agree about the time of day,
I am, however extremely proud of her brave stand.
Wonder why all of the, 'truth loving', Conservatives,
here on FORUM and elsewhere, haven't rallied to her defense.
She is a true patriot who happens to be very Conservative....
07 Feb 22
@vivify saidTo the Donald, you can't disagree with him on this and still be a "Trump loyalist".
Yes, but he's no Liz Cheney in this regard.
Pence no power to affect the outcome of the election and knew it. He's also been downplaying the Jan 6th riots and has still been supporting Trump, despite that same mob chanting to hang him. He doesn't get any respect from for certifying a valid transfer of power that would've continued with or without him.
Cheney, despite ...[text shortened]... not to the same degree; despite disagreeing with Trump one *one* issue, he's still a Trump loyalist.
I'm sorry, but Pence does deserve some credit for rejecting the outlandish proposition that the Vice President could unilaterally reject electors. Trump's lawyers were vigorously pushing that argument in the weeks before January 6th:
"A Dec. 31 Ellis memo delivered to Trump’s office suggested that Pence — who was constitutionally responsible for presiding over Congress’ counting of electoral votes on Jan. 6 — should simply refuse to open envelopes from states whose election results Trump considered to be fraudulent. That memo was described by ABC reporter Jonathan Karl in his recent book “Betrayal.” POLITICO is publishing it in full for the first time.
In a second, previously unreported memo dated Jan. 5, Ellis made a more technical legal argument that she delivered to Jay Sekulow, one of Trump's outside lawyers. Sekulow represented Trump during his first impeachment and in a series of legal battles during his administration, but he had minimal involvement in Trump’s election litigation. The exception was an early November Supreme Court case regarding Pennsylvania’s mail-in ballots.
In the Jan. 5 memo, Ellis argued that key provisions of the Electoral Count Act — limiting Pence’s authority to affirm or reject certain electors — were likely unconstitutional. She concluded that Pence, while presiding over lawmakers’ counting of electors, should simply halt the process when their alphabetical proceeding reached Arizona.
Then, she said, he should declare that the state failed to meet the legal standard for certifying its own electors and “require the final ascertainment of electors to be completed before continuing.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/10/trump-lawyer-pence-biden-524088
What would have happened if Pence had done this is unclear but it would have probably caused a Constitutional crisis.
07 Feb 22
@vivify saidPence's comments before Congress on January 6th, 2021 were clear and unequivocal:
Yes, but he's no Liz Cheney in this regard.
Pence no power to affect the outcome of the election and knew it. He's also been downplaying the Jan 6th riots and has still been supporting Trump, despite that same mob chanting to hang him. He doesn't get any respect from for certifying a valid transfer of power that would've continued with or without him.
Cheney, despite ...[text shortened]... not to the same degree; despite disagreeing with Trump one *one* issue, he's still a Trump loyalist.
"Today was a dark day in the history of the United States Capitol. But thanks to the swift efforts of U.S. Capitol Police, federal, state and local law enforcement, the violence was quelled. The Capitol is secured, and the people's work continues.
We condemn the violence that took place here in the strongest possible terms. We grieve the loss of life in these hallowed halls, as well as the injuries suffered by those who defended our Capitol today. And we will always be grateful to the men and women who stayed at their posts to defend this historic place.
To those who wreaked havoc in our Capitol today, you did not win. Violence never wins. Freedom wins. And this is still the people's house. And as we reconvene in this chamber, the world will again witness the resilience and strength of our democracy, for even in the wake of unprecedented violence and vandalism at this Capitol, the elected representatives of the people of the United States have assembled again on the very same day to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
So may God bless the lost, the injured and the heroes forged on this day. May God bless all who serve here and those who protect this place. And may god bless the United States of America.
Let's get back to work."
https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2021-01-06/read-mike-pences-statement-to-the-senate-on-the-storming-of-the-capitol
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07 Feb 22
@no1marauder saidWow......Constitutional crisis for sure.
To the Donald, you can't disagree with him on this and still be a "Trump loyalist".
I'm sorry, but Pence does deserve some credit for rejecting the outlandish proposition that the Vice President could unilaterally reject electors. Trump's lawyers were vigorously pushing that argument in the weeks before January 6th:
"A Dec. 31 Ellis memo delivered to Trump’s office ...[text shortened]... appened if Pence had done this is unclear but it would have probably caused a Constitutional crisis.
What then do you suppose?
Military? Legal wrangle akin to Bush vs Gore?
Civil War?.........Brrrr, chills me to the bone.....
And, they call themselves, patriots.
Oh, the irony..........
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07 Feb 22
@jimm619 saidOh, come on.
True, but, I'm sure you understand the tremendous pressure he must be under.
Well, OK, fair enough. It is immense pressure for a USAlien to have a penis for once in his life, and almost impossible for a Republican.
Still... in the civilised world, he's a nobody who has just managed to rise one single millimetre above nobody.
It's pathetic that you on the left praise him for this. It's downright despicable that... whatever that is, a sack of mud maybe?... on the right blame him for it.
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07 Feb 22
@no1marauder saidDespicable and anti-Christian. Deeply, Americanly despicable and anti-Christian.
unequivocal:
may god bless
Let's get back to work."
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07 Feb 22
@shallow-blue saidGod bless is simply a euphemism.
Despicable and anti-Christian. Deeply, Americanly despicable and anti-Christian.
not a big deal, as deals go.
Pence, you seem to believe, doesn't
deserve credit for 'standing up?'
Only 'right thing,' to do, you say.
In a normal atmosphere, you are correct.
The GOP's love of Trump isn't normal times.
Had Pence gone along with 'the plan,' chaos
would have ensued, no tellin' the outcome.
07 Feb 22
@shallow-blue saidYou read that whole thing and all you can come up with is a petulant criticism of a phrase used in just about every speech every delivered by a US politician?
Despicable and anti-Christian. Deeply, Americanly despicable and anti-Christian.
Grow up.
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08 Feb 22
@no1marauder saidIt's too little, too late, from someone who has up to now misused his "Christianity" to push some pretty neighbour-hating policies.
You read that whole thing and all you can come up with is a petulant criticism of a phrase used in just about every speech every delivered by a US politician?
Grow up.
Let him do some good, rather than merely not completely toeing the Trump line. Words are cheap, especially enotive words. What did Pence do, after the attacks? Help the investigation - or stall it?