@wildgrass said"The "vicious cycle" mechanisms in which one begets the other does not contradict the argument that more CO2 warms the atmosphere"
The "vicious cycle" mechanisms in which one begets the other does not contradict the argument that more CO2 warms the atmosphere. In fact, there is extremely solid foundational data from physics, chemistry, biology, geology, and climatology all supporting the same conclusion.
Another vicious cycle relates to the melting of icebergs, snow and permafrost, which release mor ...[text shortened]... ans to make the behavioral changes needed to slow it down.
We've blown past all those thresholds.
You have no evidence of that. That is a mere hypothesis.
Feel free to try and prove it though. Saying something and proving it are very different things.
Al Gore gave you a lie. A backwards cause and effect. Temps drive CO2 levels in the ice core samples, not the other way around. What part of "lie" do you not understand?
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@Metal-Brain saidI already provided evidence in the form of a well-controlled experiment with changing compositions of atmospheric gases. THere's also very strong data from satellite monitoring of the amount of heat that is radiated off the earth's surface in areas of the world where the atmospheric C02 levels are different. There's also the geological record, which as you noted tracks the linear correlation between C02 and temperature. There's astrophysics showing that the hotter planets tend to have more CO2. There's physical measurements of radiant heat in controlled single photon experiments through air. I think you're probably right that CO2 previously lagged behind temperature, but that's only because we didn't have a billion automobile engines and 3,000 coal-fired power plants to belch CO2 into the sky.
"The "vicious cycle" mechanisms in which one begets the other does not contradict the argument that more CO2 warms the atmosphere"
You have no evidence of that. That is a mere hypothesis.
Feel free to try and prove it though. Saying something and proving it are very different things.
Al Gore gave you a lie. A backwards cause and effect. Temps drive CO2 levels in the ice core samples, not the other way around. What part of "lie" do you not understand?
Maybe one of these data points in isolation would be questionable, but in aggregate they all point to the exact same, obvious conclusion.
@wildgrass saidThe lab is not the atmosphere. The experiment is invalid.
I already provided evidence in the form of a well-controlled experiment with changing compositions of atmospheric gases. THere's also very strong data from satellite monitoring of the amount of heat that is radiated off the earth's surface in areas of the world where the atmospheric C02 levels are different. There's also the geological record, which as you noted tracks the ...[text shortened]... lation would be questionable, but in aggregate they all point to the exact same, obvious conclusion.
The Pliocene Epoch proves CO2 does not warm the atmosphere because we still have glaciers. If CO2 caused all of the glaciers and sea ice to melt during the Pliocene and we have that much CO2 in the atmosphere now why do we still have glaciers and sea ice?
I know you don't have a good answer to the question. Do you know why? Because CO2 is not warming the earth. The warming earth is causing CO2 levels to rise in the atmosphere.
Al Gore lied. He gave you a backwards cause and effect and you still want to believe the liar. Why? What compels you to believe the liar? Why do you refuse to change your mind when the evidence global warming is natural is so strong?
Propaganda. But you refuse to accept your opinion was shaped by propaganda. Why wont the corporate news media even mention that Al Gore gave us all a backwards cause and effect? If that is not obvious propaganda by omission WTF is it?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidMaurice Strong and the Rockefellers started the global warming movement.
It was from Google's AI. - Take it up with them.
Big oil started the global warming movement. Ask google's AI if I am right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Strong
https://www.globalresearch.ca/rockefeller-familys-covert-climate-change-plan/5678775
You thought big oil was trying to do the opposite. The fact is, you are unwittingly on the side of big oil. You are on team Rockefeller. Everything you were taught about global warming is wrong. The Rockefellers tell presidents how to run foreign policy. Who do you think told Jimmy Carter to give exile to the Shah of Iran here in the USA? David Rockfeller. But go ahead.....ask AI.
@Metal-Brain saidThe pliocene epoch is not the atmosphere either.
The lab is not the atmosphere. The experiment is invalid.
The Pliocene Epoch proves CO2 does not warm the atmosphere because we still have glaciers. If CO2 caused all of the glaciers and sea ice to melt during the Pliocene and we have that much CO2 in the atmosphere now why do we still have glaciers and sea ice?
I know you don't have a good answer to the question. ...[text shortened]... e gave us all a backwards cause and effect? If that is not obvious propaganda by omission WTF is it?
@Metal-Brain saidI've actually read a lot of science on this. You are dismissing every single piece of physical, chemical, astronomical, biological, and theoretical evidence supporting the role of CO2 as a greenhouse gas in favor of a geological correlation that occurred in the pliocene epoch.
You retard!
@wildgrass saidYou have read a lot of propaganda on this.
I've actually read a lot of science on this. You are dismissing every single piece of physical, chemical, astronomical, biological, and theoretical evidence supporting the role of CO2 as a greenhouse gas in favor of a geological correlation that occurred in the pliocene epoch.
Why won't you answer my question about the Pliocene Epoch? Again, why did all the glaciers and sea ice melt during the Pliocene when the CO2 levels were about the same as now? We still have plenty of glaciers and sea ice. By your logic they should not exist because we have about the same CO2 levels as back then.
You are still embracing Al Gore's lie. His backwards cause and effect. The whole global warming movement is based on a stupid lie. But all you can do is equate a lab experiment to the atmosphere. There are no clouds in a greenhouse in a lab. It is not evidence. It is a mere indication.
An indication is not evidence. Lab mice and people are both mammals. We do experiments on lab mice that are an indication that the same results might be achieved in people, but it does not always work that way. Mice and people are different.
The warmer the climate gets the more water evaporates and forms clouds which block the sun. A lab experiment cannot recreate that. Do you understand? I've actually read a lot of science on this and it is all based on lies. For example, an island appears to be disappearing because of sea level rise so alarmists report that it is evidence of alarming sea level rise. It was a lie. The reality is that one tectonic plate pushed another down and that is why the island was becoming increasingly underwater. And that is just one of many examples of shameful lies they tell us.
Temps drive CO2 levels, not the other way around. That is what the ice core samples proved. You need to accept that. A warmer ocean cannot hold as much CO2. The ocean expelled CO2 into the atmosphere. Have you done the soda pop experiment at home I told you about?
You have been indoctrinated by propaganda. You have been scared into wanting a carbon tax to save the planet. A tax you otherwise would never accept. That is why they scared you into being a chicken little. They are turning your well meaning nature against you so they can control you more. Why do you think they are building these big electricity sucking data centers? Look up Palantir. They want to monitor everything you do, say, write and travel. Your carbon usage will be closely monitored so everywhere you drive must be monitored.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir
The global warming movement was started by big oil. The Rockefellers and Maurice Strong started it. The Rockefellers also were behind the American Eugenics movement. The depopulation counsel. The infertility vaccine. The Spanish American war and American Imperialism in general.
They want to control you. That is why the oil monopoly wants you to fear CO2. They were never against it. They promoted the whole scam. And the constant repetition has been so effective you are defending the scam and all the lies we were told.
Another lie is that 97% of climate scientists say man is causing the global warming. Go ahead and go on the Consensus Project website. They say the debate is over. But the consensus is not from climate scientists. Try to prove me wrong. When you fail ask yourself why they need to lie so much?
Again, why did all the glaciers and sea ice melt during the Pliocene when the CO2 levels were about the same as now? We still have plenty of glaciers and sea ice. By your logic they should not exist because we have about the same CO2 levels as back then. And why is it that nobody on TV asks a climate scientist this question so we get an answer?
@wildgrass saidYep, I've been around this with him multiple times. Problem is, he loves to see his words spread across the forum. Truth matters not to him.
I've actually read a lot of science on this. You are dismissing every single piece of physical, chemical, astronomical, biological, and theoretical evidence supporting the role of CO2 as a greenhouse gas in favor of a geological correlation that occurred in the pliocene epoch.