What do you WANT?

@no1marauder said
Interesting.

Is a severally mentally disabled human "sapient"?

I think that is still up for debate.

@no1marauder said
Interesting.

Is a severally mentally disabled human "sapient"?

As AJ or Mott or somebody pointed out a dog has sentience but no right to due process.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/103624-sentience-vs-sapience-get-it-right/

Please stop incorrectly using the word "sentient". "Sentient" means the ability to sense and feel. A dog is sentient. A tapeworm is sentient even, though certainly less so than a dog. Supposedly even some single-celled organisms have shown signs of sensing the environment and acting in self-preservation. This is all varying levels of sentience. There are literally millions of sentient species on planet Earth. Yet over and over again, you see science fiction authors calling intelligent aliens "sentient aliens" and intelligent computers "sentient computers". Where in the heck did this come from?! Don't they know their English? If I was an alien, I'd be insulted to be compared to nothing but a mouse or a tapeworm 😀

The proper word for intelligence is sapience, which means the ability to reason- i.e., the possession of intelligence. Where the cutoff between sapience and non-sapience lies, however, is not as well defined.

@AThousandYoung said
As AJ or Mott or somebody pointed out a dog has sentience but no right to due process.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/103624-sentience-vs-sapience-get-it-right/

Please stop incorrectly using the word "sentient". "Sentient" means the ability to sense and feel. A dog is sentient. A tapeworm is sentient even, though certainly less so than a dog. S ...[text shortened]... e. Where the cutoff between sapience and non-sapience lies, however, is not as well defined.

To be honest, I had never heard the word "sapience". I guess I did read too much sci-fi when I was in my teens.

Joe's example was a "Martian landing a space ship" which would obviously require "sapience"😉 so the point is moot, but thanks for the clarification.

I'm not exactly sure "sapience" is required for rights though.

@no1marauder said
To be honest, I had never heard the word "sapience". I guess I did read too much sci-fi when I was in my teens.

Joe's example was a "Martian landing a space ship" which would obviously require "sapience"😉 so the point is moot, but thanks for the clarification.

I'm not exactly sure "sapience" is required for rights though.

Personhood is required for these rights according to the Fifth Amendment.

Unfortunately what defines "personhood" is not obvious or well defined either.

Sapient Martians could in principle send out non-sapient war beasts or livestock from their ship.

@AThousandYoung said
I think that is still up for debate.

I don't think it is up for debate.

Look at Homo Sapiens, or Thinking Man.

By this, all humans are sapient.

Even if all your thoughts are rudimentary, you still have thoughts and are therefore sapient. This is probably what keeps these MAGA people in the game.

@Cliff-Mashburn said
Let us know when you are denied it.

When HE is denied due process? ICE is ALL ABOUT NO DUE PROCESS. Did you see them issuing warrants? ID themselves, show their faces? NO because they are WEAK COWARDS adopting the bully stance just like their leader whom they go Mein Herr and give the Nazi salute and King Trump gives it back.

@AThousandYoung said
Personhood is required for these rights according to the Fifth Amendment.

Unfortunately what defines "personhood" is not obvious or well defined either.

Sapient Martians could in principle send out non-sapient war beasts or livestock from their ship.

The Constitution is a man made document; it cannot create or limit rights according to Natural Rights philosophy.

At most, the Fifth Amendment is a floor not a ceiling.

@no1marauder said
Why didn't you answer my question:

no1: After you do that, please tell us why you think a sentient being would have no rights whatsoever (meaning anybody could do whatever they wanted to with it up to including kill it).

You asked...Why would a sentient being not have the rights of the humans that wander the USA, about 330M of us??
A jack russel qualifies as one, Marauder. I say that he does NOT have such rights. You are asking me why he does not have due process rights.... a jack russel. I thiink I can work up an answer, but could you rephrase the question.

When I DO answer questions thoroughly and correctly you have NO response to acknowledge my good answer. I told you way back that you want everything NOW, in speaking of Trump tariff process/negotiations. Like Sonhouse, you do not understand negotiations. I told you tht he was likely staring China down while chinee goods were piling up in China and on their container ships.
The moment of truth is arriving this week. Did you have to wait too long to get what we wanted.....he kicks ass, and you do not applaud his genius.

@AThousandYoung said
It's no secret what's happening. They're being deported, in many cases to a horrific prison in El Salvador.

Would you weave the concept of 'making choices' into your post? I, for instance, will never be eaten by a tiger, because I choose to not go into African jungles. If I do, and get eat up, I had it coming. The dependency of you people reeks.

@AThousandYoung said
Sapient not sentient

Shall we skip the word(s) and have a nice discussion about the rights of the jack russell. Does he, or doesn't he?
Should we assign a category to the jack russell, like assigning a category to the tranee?

@AverageJoe1 said
You asked...Why would a sentient being not have the rights of the humans that wander the USA, about 330M of us??
A jack russel qualifies as one, Marauder. I say that he does NOT have such rights. You are asking me why he does not have due process rights.... a jack russel. I thiink I can work up an answer, but could you rephrase the question.

When I DO an ...[text shortened]... you have to wait too long to get what we wanted.....he kicks ass, and you do not applaud his genius.

I have no idea who or what "jack russel" is. And you again didn't answer the question.

You whine that I repeat what Trump himself promised and when he promised to do it. You call him a "genius" when he rants like a spoiled child on social media.

Try sticking to the subject for a change.

@no1marauder said
I have no idea who or what "jack russel" is. And you again didn't answer the question.

You whine that I repeat what Trump himself promised and when he promised to do it. You call him a "genius" when he rants like a spoiled child on social media.

Try sticking to the subject for a change.

A jack russell is a dog. How about a collie? Does a sentinent collie have rights of due process? It is sentinent, you see, and you said wednesday that any sentinent being has due process rights. A Martian certainly would be sentinent, so would a collie.
So what about a dog having due process rights?

When trump was saying he would do things , you were in effect saying When?
I explained that he is a negotiator. I said he does not tell us everytingk like I don't show you my cards at poker. He enjoyed watchiing those tankers with dolls and chinee goods loaded on them, sitting offshore, and watching the prodeucts piling up in China with no buyers. Fiinally, they will have to fold. You libs call him TACO? Yeah, right. Come to the table, Maruader

@AverageJoe1 said
A jack russell is a dog. How about a collie? Does a sentinent collie have rights of due process? It is sentinent, you see, and you said wednesday that any sentinent being has due process rights. A Martian certainly would be sentinent, so would a collie.
So what about a dog having due process rights?

When trump was saying he would do things , you were in effec ...[text shortened]... iinally, they will have to fold. You libs call him TACO? Yeah, right. Come to the table, Maruader

No, the things I quoted were statements Trump made not only saying what he would do but when he would do them.

If a dog could pilot an interstellar space ship, I'd say it would have rights.

@no1marauder said
No, the things I quoted were statements Trump made not only saying what he would do but when he would do them.

If a dog could pilot an interstellar space ship, I'd say it would have rights.

Ha, you add another element to whom would qualify for due process. It used to be, Wednesday I think, that one need only be sentinet. So I go to all that effort to dispell your ridiculous argument, heading for an easy summary judgement, and you call for a recess to change your pleadings to the befuddled judge......who may have a little collie at home. He would still gavel after your first sentence.

You lose another.

As to Trump, it is childlike in grown-up argements to try to hold a man with 50 balls in the air to perform perfectly on each one in a timely manner. But note that he is performing perfectly. Is that not good enough for libs that are spoon-fed and always hungry? Watch TACO man pull the wool over on Xi. Genius. Read his book.

Why don't you just fall back on his not ending the Ukraine war in 24 hours. He misjudged Putin as being somewhat reasonable, esp in the face of the might of the USA. Frankly, he may indeed be reasonable after about 2 weeks of seeing Iran reduced to rubble in all the right places. I am glad the Imminent Supreme Being of Iran is not over here, you would carry your street-flag demanding he get due process.

An oyster could hardly fly a plane, though the cartoon Deputy Dog was seen flying one once, so if he got paws and proper sensitized technology wired into his brains, he could fly one,,,,,so, due process city.

I expect Trump to prevail with Russia, will you say much then? Don't want to lose your following. Mott and MB and Cliff will forge on.

@AThousandYoung said
Sapient not sentient

He was right the first time, it's sentient.
You aren't as sapient as you think you are.