what gives?

Originally posted by nsdrguy
why are Americans afraid of socialism?

because it eventually destroys the economy.

Originally posted by generalissimo
because it eventually destroys the economy.

So simple and yet so true...

I would also add that is discourages innovation and the creation of new small businesses... which are the engine of economic growth and prosperity.

Originally posted by sh76
So simple and yet so true...

I would also add that is discourages innovation and the creation of new small businesses... which are the engine of economic growth and prosperity.

it is a mystery to me why some people keep going back to it in the vague hope it will magically solve all problems.

Originally posted by sh76
So simple and yet so true...

I would also add that is discourages innovation and the creation of new small businesses... which are the engine of economic growth and prosperity.

There's also that whole annoying "liberty" thing our old fashioned constitution harps on about. Socialism is still seen by many Americans as the first step onto a slippery slope that eventually leads to tyranny. Efforts to pass legislation that forces people to buy a service (insurance) or face fines/jail time don't help to alleviate that concern.

Originally posted by generalissimo
because it eventually destroys the economy.

why is that bad? what's so great about an economic model that oppresses 2Billion people and forces them to exist on $2 per day or less?
Capitalism is a fairly modern social form (hard for you to wrap your brain around but true nonetheless) the world won't end if capitalism goes bye bye.

Originally posted by sh76
So simple and yet so true...

I would also add that is discourages innovation and the creation of new small businesses... which are the engine of economic growth and prosperity.

false, a lie of the bourgeoisie. mind numbing labor for mere subsistance discourages innovation and hard work. Marx was all for innovation and technological advancement, especially where it made the life of the laborer better

Originally posted by nsdrguy
why are Americans afraid of socialism?

Why do you assume its a fear driven dislike of socialism? Why do people from all over the world want to go to the US?

Originally posted by nsdrguy
why are Americans afraid of socialism?

Many Americans are afraid Socialism because they are living with the thought of the Soviet Union. These misguided people have not stopped to think America has many Socialist elements we now take for granted. ie: Social Security, Government healthcare for City, County, State, and Federal employees, Our Police Departments, our Judicial system, FBI , C I A, and many other government agencies are not private institutions, but run by local and federal governments. Socialism has given the right wing in America a "boogyman" to rally against, when in fact Americans have lived with Socialism in America for many decades, taken it for granted, and relied on it for a very long time.😏

Socialism is an evil system. It kills innovation, the will to be self supportive, works tirelessly towards substituting religion with govt or an individual as the center of people's lives. It inevitably leads towards more and more control of people's lives through regulation/elimination of liberty. Some posters say it has nothing to do with Marxism/Communism/Stalinsim. Pure garbage. The Nazis were socialists hence their momiker: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei; they also adopted fascist tactics, but were more similar to the Soviets. The Soviets called themselves Union of Socialist Soviet Republics for a good reason: communism/socialism are interchangeable. Originally the soviets were a grassroots effort to practice direct democracy. Russian Marxists made them a medium for organizing against the state. In other words, socialists start by treadin lightly then shift on the fly, coopted by Marxists, their philosophical brethren, who prefer greater control. Make no mistake, the ultimate aim is total control of every aspect of life, hence the term totalitarian emerges from soviet practices. There is a very good reason why persons living in these regimes would escape to the west at the risk of their lives. There is also a good reason why these escapes were combatted ferociously: control and avoiding escapees exposing the truth about these murderous regimes. Leftist govts whether you call them socialist/marxist/communist have resulted in the deaths of over 100M in the last 110 years. If you factor in the Nazis as the leftists they truly were add another 30M to the death total. That's why we Americans despise socialism and everything it stands for, will combat it through peaceful means whenever we can and would never be averse to take up arms against it! Some you wax sentimental about how Stalinism is misconstrued. It is not. It is the single greatest cause of death ever known in the history of humanity. That's why alarm is raised when persons inside the Obama adminsitration praise Mao, the single greatest mass murderer in the history of humankind and a Stalin devotee. There is nothing to admire in Mao, Stalin or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Castro, Hugo Chavez, Che Guevara, Evo Mendez, the list of notables goes on and on!

Originally posted by bill718
Many Americans are afraid Socialism because they are living with the thought of the Soviet Union. These misguided people have not stopped to think America has many Socialist elements we now take for granted. ie: Social Security, Government healthcare for City, County, State, and Federal employees, Our Police Departments, our Judicial system, FBI , C I A, and ...[text shortened]... sm in America for many decades, taken it for granted, and relied on it for a very long time.😏

The government is there to provide public goods and services that private industry can't or won't provide because there is no profit in it. Read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good
It has nothing to do with fear.

Originally posted by scacchipazzo
Socialism is an evil system. It kills innovation, the will to be self supportive, works tirelessly towards substituting religion with govt or an individual as the center of people's lives. It inevitably leads towards more and more control of people's lives through regulation/elimination of liberty. Some posters say it has nothing to do with Marxism/Comm ...[text shortened]... l Pot, or Castro, Hugo Chavez, Che Guevara, Evo Mendez, the list of notables goes on and on!

rubbish. Where did Marx say that govt should be a substitute for religion. All of your arguments are merely strawman arguments, there is no substance or correlated proof, there is on th other hand an abundance of evidense to disprove your assertions

Norway (=)
Iceland (↑ 5)
Australia (=)
Luxembourg (↑ 11)
Canada (↓ 1)
Sweden (↓ 4)
Switzerland (↑ 4)
Ireland (↑ 2)
Belgium (↓ 3)
United States (↓ 2)


these are the top ten ranked countries in order by standard of living, wanna guess which ones are socialist? wanna guess what the number one is? need a hint?

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
There's also that whole annoying "liberty" thing our old fashioned constitution harps on about. Socialism is still seen by many Americans as the first step onto a slippery slope that eventually leads to tyranny. Efforts to pass legislation that forces people to buy a service (insurance) or face fines/jail time don't help to alleviate that concern.

Yes, many people misinterpret the idea of liberty like that. They think that their elected representatives can't make laws that tell them what to do unless it's enforcing their particular religiously based moral system on other people. It comes from the combination of repression and radical Christianity that made up the extreme Puritan view on things.

Originally posted by nsdrguy
why is that bad? what's so great about an economic model that oppresses 2Billion people and forces them to exist on $2 per day or less?
Capitalism is a fairly modern social form (hard for you to wrap your brain around but true nonetheless) the world won't end if capitalism goes bye bye.

what's so great about an economic model that oppresses 2Billion people and forces them to exist on $2 per day or less?

1. I don't know where you got that from.
2. liberty, with capitalism people have a choice to do whatever they want to do with their money, this is repressed under a socialist regime.
3. its not like socialism doesn't have a history of economic oppression, far from it.


the world won't end if capitalism goes bye bye.

it won't end, but it will be crappy.

Originally posted by generalissimo
[b]what's so great about an economic model that oppresses 2Billion people and forces them to exist on $2 per day or less?

1. I don't know where you got that from.
2. liberty, with capitalism people have a choice to do whatever they want to do with their money, this is repressed under a socialist regime.
3. its not like socialism doesn't have a ...[text shortened]... the world won't end if capitalism goes bye bye.[/b]

it won't end, but it will be crappy.[/b]

1. well known fact, look it up

2. false. the ruling class control both the income and the cost of living. The laborer works for mere existance, there is no surplus with which to "decide". part 2 is false also, prove your assertion if you can.

3. show me one truly socialist country that economically opresses. We will of course have the argument about whether that country is truly socialist, or merely a totalitatian regime, which regresses a culture to fuedalism, an even worse system than capitalism



we can only hope it will as crappy as Norway

Originally posted by nsdrguy
false, a lie of the bourgeoisie. mind numbing labor for mere subsistance discourages innovation and hard work. Marx was all for innovation and technological advancement, especially where it made the life of the laborer better

Yes, Marx was all for innovation and technological advancement just like I'm all in favor of myself winning the US Open next year without having to practice or train. But neither are likely to occur.

The engine behind innovation and the engine behind creating new businesses is the desire for profit. A worker whose lifestyle and salary are not influenced by his ingenuity and efforts is unlikely to exercise those and therefore less likely to contribute the most positive impact on society that he can.

The desire to make life better for society is simply not enough motivation for most individuals to go above and beyond the call of duty and to innovate. The only thing that is enough motivation to do so is the prospect of greater rewards to be realized by the individual.