https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program/ppp-loan-forgiveness
Remember the paycheck protection plan? You don't even need evidence that your government-sponsored loan - that's a contract that says you pay back the money - actually created or saved any jobs in order for it to be completely forgiven by Uncle Sam.
The politicians who wrote this law collected tens of millions of dollars in free money from you, Joe. Compare that to $10,000 for a struggling 24 year old and let's try to separate the mountain from the mole hill.
Freeloaders.
10 Dec 22
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@booger saidLOL
Wait a minute....
Deja Vu?
PPP business loan forgiveness and student loan forgiveness were about the same dollar amount overall.
So the appropriate debate question: Do you support both actions, neither actions, or one over the other? Why?
10 Dec 22
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@wildgrass said"Borrowers My Be Eligible For PPP". I looked PPP up, and this is the lead sentence. The key word of 'Eligible" was all I needed to see for me to respond thusly.........
https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program/ppp-loan-forgiveness
Remember the paycheck protection plan? You don't even need evidence that your government-sponsored loan - that's a contract that says you pay back the money - actually created or saved any jobs in order for it to be completely forgiven by Uncle Sam.
The ...[text shortened]... a struggling 24 year old and let's try to separate the mountain from the mole hill.
Freeloaders.
Looks like folks had to qualify, Wildgrass, for whatever this giveaway was.
No such qualification or 'eligibility' (what a laugh) required for the tuition abomination.
Can you not see the circumstantial difference? The college grads borrowed money, and the concept of paying it back was a daily part of their 'life plan', if you will.
Folks who were surprised with the paycheck surprise were in a hell of a different boat. Didnt plan on it.
This is nothing.... you should've seen a Marauder post where he tried to equate two entirely different entities, can't remember what that one was about. We Conservatives field a lot of fly balls!
10 Dec 22
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@wildgrass saidThe PPP was a good idea ruined by deliberate mismanagement by the Trump administration:
https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/covid-19-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program/ppp-loan-forgiveness
Remember the paycheck protection plan? You don't even need evidence that your government-sponsored loan - that's a contract that says you pay back the money - actually created or saved any jobs in order for it to be completely forgiven by Uncle Sam.
The ...[text shortened]... a struggling 24 year old and let's try to separate the mountain from the mole hill.
Freeloaders.
"Hannibal Ware, Inspector General for the SBA, testified before Congress about the rampant fraud within the PPP and Economic Injury Disaster Loans programs, saying that he and his team offered numerous recommendations to the SBA, but that they weren’t “taken seriously.” The Inspector General reported that the SBA under President Donald Trump removed fraud-control guidelines before launching the program. According to the Inspector, speed was prioritized over due diligence, leading to billions of dollars of waste, corruption, and theft. While the Government Accountability Office warned repeatedly of fraud risk, the program continued."
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/shedding-light-paycheck-protection-program-loan-abuse
The goal of getting funds to small businesses to keep them afloat and workers employed during the pandemic was laudable but handing the implementation over to Trump's crooks without adequate oversight was a mistake:
"After months of litigation, the Small Business Administration finally revealed the name of every business that received a loan under the Paycheck Protection Program on Tuesday night, and early analysis reveals that a majority of the forgivable funds—intended for smaller businesses needing emergency relief for payroll, rent or mortgage expenses—actually went to bigger businesses, including some with ties to President Donald Trump and his administration."
"The Treasury Department and Small Business Administration encouraged big banks to provide PPP loans to their “wealthy existing clients at the expense of truly struggling small businesses in underserved communities,” a House subcommittee said in October after a months-long investigation into the disbursement of PPP funds."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2020/12/02/new-ppp-loan-data-reveals-most-of-the-525-billion-given-out-went-to-larger-businesses-some-with-trump-kushner-ties/?sh=5d760e5c5a43
10 Dec 22
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@no1marauder saidBut given all you say, is not the issue the rationale of a program (PPP) with good intentions, to get people through unanticipated situations, (like farm subsidies, etc)?? A laudable program, but you go for the jugular here about the dark side of politics screwing it all up. Whatever and whomever you want crow about, but the issue remains, it was a logical rationale plan for govt, assistance.
The PPP was a good idea ruined by deliberate mismanagement by the Trump administration:
"Hannibal Ware, Inspector General for the SBA, testified before Congress about the rampant fraud within the PPP and Economic Injury Disaster Loans programs, saying that he and his team offered numerous recommendations to the SBA, but that they weren’t “taken seriously.” [b]The Inspe ...[text shortened]... of-the-525-billion-given-out-went-to-larger-businesses-some-with-trump-kushner-ties/?sh=5d760e5c5a43
As far as I am concerned, and reasoned-out here, the tuition plan has no such credibility. If I borrow $10k today, can you give us an example of a situation which might arise that I should not have to pay it back to he/them who loaned it to me? One example.
That is the crux of the thread. The newer topic which you try to insert here needs another thread, about bad actors in government. What about the logic of the question here on the table?
Please give us an example, make it a fun thread, please no links.
Like, what has Kushner for god sakes got to do with this issue? Geez
10 Dec 22
2 edits
@averagejoe1 saidThe same situation that caused small businesses to struggle caused student loan borrowers to have difficulties in repaying their loans.
But given all you say, is not the issue the rationale of a program (PPP) with good intentions, to get people through unanticipated situations, (like farm subsidies, etc)?? A laudable program, but you go for the jugular here about the dark side of politics screwing it all up. Whatever and whomever you want crow about, but the issue remains, it was a logical rationale pla ...[text shortened]... fun thread, please no links.
Like, what has Kushner for god sakes got to do with this issue? Geez
Sorry you're too stupid to understand this.
And OMFG, how many times do I have to explain to you that millions of loans are renegotiated, reduced, discharged or forgiven every year by private and public lenders? It's ridiculous we cover the same ground in dozens of threads and you either pretend or really are too much of a moron to understand such basic points.
10 Dec 22
@averagejoe1 saidWhat "issues" are right wingers really interested in? Certainly none where they have any solutions to offer.
I find that libs on the Forum bring up people, personalities, a lot, such as here, and like Sonhouse does. Conservatives are into issues.
10 Dec 22
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@no1marauder saidSorry, I am simply saying the president has no right to forgive the loans, and he has no Reason to do so, as these were voluntarily undertaken by debtors. The 'struggle' you speak of is generally not the result of poor planning by the people under PPP.
The same situation that caused small businesses to struggle caused student loan borrowers to have difficulties in repaying their loans.
Sorry you're too stupid to understand this.
And OMFG, how many times do I have to explain to you that millions of loans are renegotiated, reduced, discharged or forgiven every year by private and public lenders? It's ridiculous we c ...[text shortened]... of threads and you either pretend or really are too much of a moron to understand such basic points.
Give us an example of why I would not have to pay back a loan that I voluntarily take out. And spare us your logic that I might fall on hard times. There is bankruptcy for that, as you well know..... A long-time remedy, a process, for many many years. This generation's libs have come up with a plan just to allow them to not pay it and to not suffer any consequence . A bankrupt loses all his stuff, and has to start over in some fashion, depending on which Chapter.
Please get the 'not suffer consequence part." Are you for real?
PS: MY points could not be more basic. I borrow, I pay. Exceptions, please?
10 Dec 22
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@averagejoe1 saidStudent loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy except under the most extreme of circumstances; thus they are treated differently from virtually any other type of debt. Maybe the right wing sites you get all your information from haven't told you this.
Sorry, I am simply saying the president has no right to forgive the loans, and he has no Reason to do so, as these were voluntarily undertaken by debtors. The 'struggle' you speak of is generally not the result of poor planning by the people under PPP.
Give us an example of why I would not have to pay back a loan that I voluntarily take out. And spare us your logic ...[text shortened]... you for real?
PS: MY points could not be more basic. I borrow, I pay. Exceptions, please?
The reasoning behind the President's proposal has been explained to you numerous times as have the legal justification for it. Give me a reason why I should do so again when you are just going to ignore it.
10 Dec 22
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@no1marauder saidOf course all on the forum know that. Seems you miss MY point. They need to pay the loans back, and you are saying that their mindset should be how to get out of paying the loan back.
Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy except under the most extreme of circumstances; thus they are treated differently from virtually any other type of debt. Maybe the right wing sites you get all your information from haven't told you this.
The reasoning behind the President's proposal has been explained to you numerous times as have the legal justification for it. Give me a reason why I should do so again when you are just going to ignore it.
Here is a fresh point for me to make. Query, why do you think these loans were made an exception in qualifying for discharge in bankruptcy? Could it be that the creators of the process did NOT think they should be able shirk this debt? That, it was too important that the govt get the money back, to loan out to the next generation? Tell me, where will THAT money come from. I am common sense here. All of this only solidifies my case here.
As to President's reason, it flies right in the face of my more sound logic and rationale. My reasons best his stupid reason. And 73% of the debtors have said they are going to spend the windfall on dining and travel. THAT bests his stupid reasoning .
The elephant here is that y'all plucked this debt from other, more important, sad debts that people are saddled with. And next, after this forgiveness,, you will find some other debt to forgive. On and On.
You never told me an example of a situation where I should not have to repay a debt.
10 Dec 22
@averagejoe1 saidTimes change. Rigid backward thinking like yours is inadequate to deal with new situations and crises.
Of course all on the forum know that. Seems you miss MY point. They need to pay the loans back, and you are saying that their mindset should be how to get out of paying the loan back.
Here is a fresh point for me to make. Query, why do you think these loans were made an exception in qualifying for discharge in bankruptcy? Could it be that the creators of the pr ...[text shortened]... On and On.
You never told me an example of a situation where I should not have to repay a debt.
Your positions are incoherent and contradictory and seem to be mostly based on emotion and personal resentment. Forgiving a portion of debt owed to government by members of working and middle class because of economic hardship caused by a pandemic fueled economic downturn is an obviously beneficial policy. That your personal ignorance and bitterness makes you unable to see this is unfortunate.